Congrats TW - you killed your own game

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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Jeez I'd almost forgotten this thread but look how much of it is right out there 3 years ago lmao.


🤔🤔
You'd be surprised how huge an amount of honest feedback is gathering dust behind the shelf. I know that pronouncing "I told you so" by beating a dead horse is a bit childish, but Taleworlds cannot say that the Community did not warn in advance of the disaster that was coming its way.

Either we find a raft where Taleworlds and the community can fit together comfortably or the current hypothermia will force us to cut our moorings... if many have not already done so.

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Aurex

Regular
WB
You mean Taleworlds can't stop talking. Just not to you or me.
Jesus Christ. I don't frequent Twitter at all, but that's actually very depressing.
It's as tone-deaf as you could get. They're like those boomer grandmas sharing horrifying recipes on Facebook and showing pictures of their ugly grandkids expecting people to be like: "Well done, Sarah! Great Lasagne, and your grandkids are soooo cute <3<3<3 much love"
Their game is left to rot and they have time to employ even some manpower posting crap nobody gives a single f**k about.
 

Aurex

Regular
WB
You'd be surprised how huge an amount of honest feedback is gathering dust behind the shelf.
This is one of the saddest things about the whole Bannerlord affair. They have people literally doing research on medieval warfare (forgive me, I don't remember the name of those who posted those great animations videos and the like, not to mention all the suggestions) and basically offering brainpower (which they clearly need at this point) for free and yet they decide to ignore all of that and go on with "This is fine" as their game is literally dying.
It's also why there's less and less constructive criticism and suggestions on the forum. People just know their voices have no value in the eyes of the company.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
This is one of the saddest things about the whole Bannerlord affair. They have people literally doing research on medieval warfare (forgive me, I don't remember the name of those who posted those great animations videos and the like, not to mention all the suggestions) and basically offering brainpower (which they clearly need at this point) for free and yet they decide to ignore all of that and go on with "This is fine" as their game is literally dying.
It's also why there's less and less constructive criticism and suggestions on the forum. People just know their voices have no value in the eyes of the company.
Leaving aside the SP, of which there is enough feedback material to complete 17 Bannerlords; in the closed beta section there is still material that should be pure gold for Taleworlds.

Entire teams have been willing to work together to lay the foundations of the combat system with active advice. Bridges have been built to find a way to find a middle ground, a hybrid system to overcome the shortcomings of the class system applied to different modes. The search for different balances for different modes. There was the opportunity to support a prototype custom server (Mister out of time) where the combat system could be tested in an ACTIVE way. A huge amount of feedback has been given in order to reach a consensus on the classes and their balance. And a looooooong etc...

Well, after all this time (from June 2019 to the end of May 2021... all that I honestly say, has not had the attention it should, a necessary attention.

In terms of feedback, the only relevant milestones for the community were the implementation of the Silen's parameters (which would have been polished had we been able to continue with the Moot master server testing) and the aesthetic look facelift of the classes (thanks to the work done in the creative unit aesthetics thread).

Everything else has been practically fighting the windmills 😌 🎻 .
 
Yes I'm being a bit unfair because I know many skirmish players also don't like many of this nerfs and changes.
I'm not saying the Skirmish players directly asked TW to change this ... but someone ,somewhere must have complained about several things or else TW wouldn't have made some of this changes,

MLG-CAV player : I can't get enough archer kills because they always defend themselfs with a pike or a spear.
TW : Say no more fam, I'll remove that perk from them and make them completly defenseless, just pass by them with a glaive and call it a day.

MLG2H player : I can't fight 1v1 because those godamn archers keep shooting my ass, and those skirmish guy always throwing stuff at me, I hate it!
TW : Say no more fam, i'll just make them run super slow, nerf the **** of their bow and crossbows, make it super innacurate.. might as well only give them 3 bolts/arrows since that's how many they will shoot before getting caught and killed (...) f*ck it why not... let me just nerf the **** out of the throwables as well so they will be super hard to land a hit.

Meanwhile on the captain scene, archers/crossbow become useless, slow and innacurate, can't defend themselfs and it created the rambo cav problem.
Skirmish unit was useless because the A.I was dumb in the first place, with the nerfed throwing, now they're just ****
This us vs them mentality has to stop, we all want to have an enjoyable multiplayer, regardless of the game mode.
Inevertible this happens because it seems TW devs are giving more attention to the Skirmish scene and Captain players always end up getting screwed over with this changes. It has been a lost after lost to the captain mode with every update in this past year, every update ruins a feature that was working and it seems skirmish players seem to be ok with this nerfs and changes.

I'm saying this out of frustration, because captain is the only mode right now that gives me the sense of being on a large battle, since we don't have battle mode and we can't keep a siege server alive without crashing 5 times in 10 minutes, many of us players are playing this skirmish and captain because we don't have better and it sucks to see it get worse with every update
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
Class system for Captains only would be best, but TW is way too overwhelmed to do an equipment system.. i hope at least the mp game design manager was fired already
 

Loyal2Odin

Sergeant
Class system for Captains only would be best, but TW is way too overwhelmed to do an equipment system.. i hope at least the mp game design manager was fired already
I still don't really understand why they are making things to complex for themselves. They're basically balancing the game on two different fronts now.
 

TFK_Ted

Sergeant at Arms
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Imagine running a company that fails to provide the simplest communication both internally as external and somehow (Still) get away with it.
Somehow bannerlords AI is a perfect representation of the company’s management and progress.
But in all honesty it’s pointless to rage anymore. Just grab a bag of chips and watch the fire.
I would like some chips now. But I have none at home. Goddamn it.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I kinda like the concept art and some of the fan art being posted on Twitter ngl. Better than silence.
 

Mushbeast

Knight
MLG2H player : I can't fight 1v1 because those godamn archers keep shooting my ass, and those skirmish guy always throwing stuff at me, I hate it!
TW : Say no more fam, i'll just make them run super slow, nerf the **** of their bow and crossbows, make it super innacurate.. might as well only give them 3 bolts/arrows since that's how many they will shoot before getting caught and killed (...) f*ck it why not... let me just nerf the **** out of the throwables as well so they will be super hard to land a hit.

Meanwhile on the captain scene, archers/crossbow become useless, slow and innacurate, can't defend themselfs and it created the rambo cav problem.
Skirmish unit was useless because the A.I was dumb in the first place, with the nerfed throwing, now they're just ****
Just on this subject, I think the main issue there is how the AI handles their bows. The things are still way too powerful in players hands, and 2handed won't stand any chance against them on any mode (maybe Captain if AI are spazzing)

I can see where you're coming from though, but no mode has any semblance of decent balance at the moment, it is no better on any of the others. I don't think they can or should just rebalance mechanics themselves to work differently on each mode as that would just feel weird and confusing, but they should definitely balance around costs, perk selections and in the case of Captain, AI and unit counts.
 

Horatius

Sergeant
WBNWVC
Just on this subject, I think the main issue there is how the AI handles their bows. The things are still way too powerful in players hands, and 2handed won't stand any chance against them on any mode (maybe Captain if AI are spazzing)

I can see where you're coming from though, but no mode has any semblance of decent balance at the moment, it is no better on any of the others. I don't think they can or should just rebalance mechanics themselves to work differently on each mode as that would just feel weird and confusing, but they should definitely balance around costs, perk selections and in the case of Captain, AI and unit counts.
Archers way too powerful? Lmfao, no.
Also it is intended design that a 2hander can barely stand a chance against them, get a shield or sneak up on them. You are quite a bit faster and in combination with cav archers are an easy but deadly target.

Archers themselves are in a good place at the moment only problem I have is that it feels unsatisfying and accuracy is often not logical/consistent.
Xbows need somewhat of an overhaul IMO, but I ranted about that in another topic already.

Don't nerf archers further and git gud.
 

Mushbeast

Knight
Archers way too powerful? Lmfao, no.
Also it is intended design that a 2hander can barely stand a chance against them, get a shield or sneak up on them. You are quite a bit faster and in combination with cav archers are an easy but deadly target.

Archers themselves are in a good place at the moment only problem I have is that it feels unsatisfying and accuracy is often not logical/consistent.
Xbows need somewhat of an overhaul IMO, but I ranted about that in another topic already.

Don't nerf archers further and git gud
Certain bows deal way too much damage with no real down-side. They're not immensely overpowered in Skirmish because of the smaller maps and shield meta, but in everything else they're extremely easy and cheesy.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
MLG2H player : I can't fight 1v1 because those godamn archers keep shooting my ass, and those skirmish guy always throwing stuff at me, I hate it!
TW : Say no more fam, i'll just make them run super slow, nerf the **** of their bow and crossbows, make it super innacurate.. might as well only give them 3 bolts/arrows since that's how many they will shoot before getting caught and killed (...) f*ck it why not... let me just nerf the **** out of the throwables as well so they will be super hard to land a hit.
Inherent problem here is that infantry have always been niche by design due to the lack of proper all-rounder medium infantry, a problem which I dont think I could have laid out any clearer, and the response from Taleworlds balance team has been to nerf everything instead of buff infantry. When they do try to "buff" infantry they do it in ways that are catastrophically unfun for everyone else to fight against like adding crushthrough to every twohander or giving 100 gold classes a 1 hit kill memestick.

Bottom line is that until every faction has a class that can field a loudout that simultaneously has.
  • ~25 armor
  • decent speed
  • big shield
  • one handed spear
  • decent 1 hander
Infantry are going to continue to suck. The only time they dont suck to play as is when they have some cheese that makes them suck to play against. I tried to explain this for 10 months and even got responses from the devs saying they agree with me, but the class infantry need still doesnt exist so I guess they really didnt agree that much.

Its actually gotten worse since I wrote the medium infantry thread that was received so well. When I wrote that, wildling was the only class that fit the description. They have since received nerfs to their shield and spear to make them no longer fit the definition.

Its no longer my problem, and my main reason for even being here is to just hang out and say "I told you so" when I get bored of what Im actually working on.
 
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OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
Infantry are going to continue to suck. The only time they dont suck to play as is when they have some cheese that makes them suck to play against. I tried to explain this for 10 months and even got responses from the devs saying they agree with me, but the class infantry need still doesnt exist so I guess they really didnt agree that much.

Just fixing melee would be a big buff to inf as well, right now their only method to force kills is kicks, throwing, and outnumbering due to very narrow shield hitboxes, all of which discourage melee fighting.
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
Just fixing melee would be a big buff to inf as well, right now their only method to force kills is kicks, throwing, and outnumbering due to very narrow shield hitboxes, all of which discourage melee fighting.
I am actually surprised so few people talk about how useless regular melee is in this game.
 
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