Complete lack of Immersion

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Elbromas

Recruit
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Just because you or anyone else wants it doesn't mean that TW wants to put it in there, just sayin'. But they have shown a willingness to listen to the community sometimes. Who knows maybe they will. No one would be happier than me if they put more RP aspects into the game. :xf-smile:
It's not what I want, its what the game needs, and I'm pretty sure a lot of members on this forum and an entire modding community agrees with
 

Wulfsdottir

Sergeant
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Just because you or anyone else wants it doesn't mean that TW wants to put it in there, just sayin'. But they have shown a willingness to listen to the community sometimes. Who knows maybe they will. No one would be happier than me if they put more RP aspects into the game. :xf-smile:
They advertise the game as an RPG and say that you can achieve your goals in different ways, while the game is also sandbox.
Now as of today, you can't achieve your goals in different ways. You can't really get enjoyment in being trader or bandit, or something. You have basically one course of action. To fight fight fight fight... sell the loot or become smith and make javelins if you want income.

The statement that workshops and caravans work as intended is laughable. So, I can have 3 caravans and 3 workshops and castle with 2 villages that can not provide me enough funds to pay for my moderate squad and garrison?

What's the point in even having a castle if I can't afford to have best garrison for it and be sure they can defend themselves while I am bit away? So if I want to pay for tier 6 troops and a garrison I just HAVE to make javelins and/or constantly fight to sell the loot. So what about playing as a smart diplomat, or wealthy merchant who doesn't want to achieve her goals through piles of bodies and bloodshed. What about diplomacy? What about economy? Noooo the game says. Fight and make javelins, fight and make javelins. At this point even having the workshop have no sense. Even if they provide 100 denars per day (which is rare after last update as I have read) it's a salary of couple of high-end troops and that's it. Imagine having an enterprise that PRODUCES THE ARMOR FOR SALE EN MASSE and all you get from it is paycheck for 2 or 3 of your soldiers. This is ridiculous. If you want it to be hard for a player to own everything, make it harder to get a factory. Make it quest dependent. Make it more expensive to buy. But when you have it, you must feel like you make a difference.

And even fighting means nothing as defeating your enemy has no consequence. They're back in 2 days. No traits mean anything. Cruel lord? raids the village. Honorable one? - nah, he's raiding it too, because f*** honor... it only penalizes YOU, not others. And if you want to change something in this streak of madness, by for example executing the enemy lord who WELL DESERVES it - you suddenly become the hated criminal in the whole world.

I mean... wtf? You captured the guy who was killing innocent farmers in your village. You locked him up in the dungeon. He escaped and came back2 days later doing the same. You captured him again, they paid ransom, you advised him not to do it again... Soon he comes back and does it again. You capture him and give that one last warning, but no... He does it AGAIN... and you, finally pissed off just chop the bastard's head... BUT OH NO... Suddenly YOU are the villain here. HOW?

And this is just one example. The worst part is, the devs not even talk about it. They are just talking about fixing some bugs. And if they say something about game features, they say, it works as intended, like in enterprise case. So the EA is not excuse in this case.

Now, I don't post much, especially lately. I don't create many threads myself and I am generally chill and I wait patiently for updates, but people... enough is enough. You just can't justify everything with EA
 

froggyluv

Master Knight
NW
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They advertise the game as an RPG and say that you can achieve your goals in different ways, while the game is also sandbox.
Now as of today, you can't achieve your goals in different ways. You can't really get enjoyment in being trader or bandit, or something. You have basically one course of action. To fight fight fight fight... sell the loot or become smith and make javelins if you want income.

The statement that workshops and caravans work as intended is laughable. So, I can have 3 caravans and 3 workshops and castle with 2 villages that can not provide me enough funds to pay for my moderate squad and garrison?

What's the point in even having a castle if I can't afford to have best garrison for it and be sure they can defend themselves while I am bit away? So if I want to pay for tier 6 troops and a garrison I just HAVE to make javelins and/or constantly fight to sell the loot. So what about playing as a smart diplomat, or wealthy merchant who doesn't want to achieve her goals through piles of bodies and bloodshed. What about diplomacy? What about economy? Noooo the game says. Fight and make javelins, fight and make javelins. At this point even having the workshop have no sense. Even if they provide 100 denars per day (which is rare after last update as I have read) it's a salary of couple of high-end troops and that's it. Imagine having an enterprise that PRODUCES THE ARMOR FOR SALE EN MASSE and all you get from it is paycheck for 2 or 3 of your soldiers. This is ridiculous. If you want it to be hard for a player to own everything, make it harder to get a factory. Make it quest dependent. Make it more expensive to buy. But when you have it, you must feel like you make a difference.

And even fighting means nothing as defeating your enemy has no consequence. They're back in 2 days. No traits mean anything. Cruel lord? raids the village. Honorable one? - nah, he's raiding it too, because f*** honor... it only penalizes YOU, not others. And if you want to change something in this streak of madness, by for example executing the enemy lord who WELL DESERVES it - you suddenly become the hated criminal in the whole world.

I mean... wtf? You captured the guy who was killing innocent farmers in your village. You locked him up in the dungeon. He escaped and came back2 days later doing the same. You captured him again, they paid ransom, you advised him not to do it again... Soon he comes back and does it again. You capture him and give that one last warning, but no... He does it AGAIN... and you, finally pissed off just chop the bastard's head... BUT OH NO... Suddenly YOU are the villain here. HOW?

And this is just one example. The worst part is, the devs not even talk about it. They are just talking about fixing some bugs. And if they say something about game features, they say, it works as intended, like in enterprise case. So the EA is not excuse in this case.

Now, I don't post much, especially lately. I don't create many threads myself and I am generally chill and I wait patiently for updates, but people... enough is enough. You just can't justify everything with EA
Curious if you've seen this guy -he posted here on forums -who figured out how to make caravans profitable
 

MostBlunted

Knight
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0
I just HAVE to make javelins and/or constantly fight to sell the loot.
Yep, that´s it. But the good thing is that you have to beat the same lord each 3 ingame days so fighting isn´t an issue. It´s perfectly balanced as all things should be.

TW is like:

WHAT? A workshop gets you 500 denars? That´s not right!
What? A single javelin gets you like 100k denars? That´s fine.
 

The Great Grub

Veteran
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i recently got back in to warband vanilla which i thought was possible due to it feeling outdated but i was wrong i have been having a blast being able to fully customize my companions and make them specialize into something else even though they were originally specked into something else i made jeremus into a Templar dude who is a beast in combat and heals everyone after battles and rolf i specked him into engineering and then leadership so he could be the marshal of my kingdom (which hes rather good at). Bannerlord however makes it impossible to spec the companions into anything that they aren't already specked into in my experience
 

StewVader

Veteran
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They advertise the game as an RPG and say that you can achieve your goals in different ways, while the game is also sandbox.
Now as of today, you can't achieve your goals in different ways. You can't really get enjoyment in being trader or bandit, or something. You have basically one course of action. To fight fight fight fight... sell the loot or become smith and make javelins if you want income.

The statement that workshops and caravans work as intended is laughable. So, I can have 3 caravans and 3 workshops and castle with 2 villages that can not provide me enough funds to pay for my moderate squad and garrison?

What's the point in even having a castle if I can't afford to have best garrison for it and be sure they can defend themselves while I am bit away? So if I want to pay for tier 6 troops and a garrison I just HAVE to make javelins and/or constantly fight to sell the loot. So what about playing as a smart diplomat, or wealthy merchant who doesn't want to achieve her goals through piles of bodies and bloodshed. What about diplomacy? What about economy? Noooo the game says. Fight and make javelins, fight and make javelins. At this point even having the workshop have no sense. Even if they provide 100 denars per day (which is rare after last update as I have read) it's a salary of couple of high-end troops and that's it. Imagine having an enterprise that PRODUCES THE ARMOR FOR SALE EN MASSE and all you get from it is paycheck for 2 or 3 of your soldiers. This is ridiculous. If you want it to be hard for a player to own everything, make it harder to get a factory. Make it quest dependent. Make it more expensive to buy. But when you have it, you must feel like you make a difference.

And even fighting means nothing as defeating your enemy has no consequence. They're back in 2 days. No traits mean anything. Cruel lord? raids the village. Honorable one? - nah, he's raiding it too, because f*** honor... it only penalizes YOU, not others. And if you want to change something in this streak of madness, by for example executing the enemy lord who WELL DESERVES it - you suddenly become the hated criminal in the whole world.

I mean... wtf? You captured the guy who was killing innocent farmers in your village. You locked him up in the dungeon. He escaped and came back2 days later doing the same. You captured him again, they paid ransom, you advised him not to do it again... Soon he comes back and does it again. You capture him and give that one last warning, but no... He does it AGAIN... and you, finally pissed off just chop the bastard's head... BUT OH NO... Suddenly YOU are the villain here. HOW?

And this is just one example. The worst part is, the devs not even talk about it. They are just talking about fixing some bugs. And if they say something about game features, they say, it works as intended, like in enterprise case. So the EA is not excuse in this case.

Now, I don't post much, especially lately. I don't create many threads myself and I am generally chill and I wait patiently for updates, but people... enough is enough. You just can't justify everything with EA
Well ****ing said man. I couldn't agree more. THEY DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT!!!! How can this be the game we've waited for, for so long?
 

RoboSenshi

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWVC
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They advertise the game as an RPG and say that you can achieve your goals in different ways, while the game is also sandbox.
Now as of today, you can't achieve your goals in different ways. You can't really get enjoyment in being trader or bandit, or something. You have basically one course of action. To fight fight fight fight... sell the loot or become smith and make javelins if you want income.

The statement that workshops and caravans work as intended is laughable. So, I can have 3 caravans and 3 workshops and castle with 2 villages that can not provide me enough funds to pay for my moderate squad and garrison?

What's the point in even having a castle if I can't afford to have best garrison for it and be sure they can defend themselves while I am bit away? So if I want to pay for tier 6 troops and a garrison I just HAVE to make javelins and/or constantly fight to sell the loot. So what about playing as a smart diplomat, or wealthy merchant who doesn't want to achieve her goals through piles of bodies and bloodshed. What about diplomacy? What about economy? Noooo the game says. Fight and make javelins, fight and make javelins. At this point even having the workshop have no sense. Even if they provide 100 denars per day (which is rare after last update as I have read) it's a salary of couple of high-end troops and that's it. Imagine having an enterprise that PRODUCES THE ARMOR FOR SALE EN MASSE and all you get from it is paycheck for 2 or 3 of your soldiers. This is ridiculous. If you want it to be hard for a player to own everything, make it harder to get a factory. Make it quest dependent. Make it more expensive to buy. But when you have it, you must feel like you make a difference.

And even fighting means nothing as defeating your enemy has no consequence. They're back in 2 days. No traits mean anything. Cruel lord? raids the village. Honorable one? - nah, he's raiding it too, because f*** honor... it only penalizes YOU, not others. And if you want to change something in this streak of madness, by for example executing the enemy lord who WELL DESERVES it - you suddenly become the hated criminal in the whole world.

I mean... wtf? You captured the guy who was killing innocent farmers in your village. You locked him up in the dungeon. He escaped and came back2 days later doing the same. You captured him again, they paid ransom, you advised him not to do it again... Soon he comes back and does it again. You capture him and give that one last warning, but no... He does it AGAIN... and you, finally pissed off just chop the bastard's head... BUT OH NO... Suddenly YOU are the villain here. HOW?

And this is just one example. The worst part is, the devs not even talk about it. They are just talking about fixing some bugs. And if they say something about game features, they say, it works as intended, like in enterprise case. So the EA is not excuse in this case.

Now, I don't post much, especially lately. I don't create many threads myself and I am generally chill and I wait patiently for updates, but people... enough is enough. You just can't justify everything with EA
Damn. It finally got to you to huh brother? Don't worry come in sit down. There's plenty of room.
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
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I completely agree @Wulfsdottir, but the worst thing is this is just 1 out of many things that ruins the immersion. But lets be honest they have a 87% positive review score (which i still don't really get looking at Bannerlords state) so the higher ups belive they're on the right track.
 

Wulfsdottir

Sergeant
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Damn. It finally got to you to huh brother? Don't worry come in sit down. There's plenty of room.
"Sister", but yeah :grin: I'll just sit here for a while

I completely agree @Wulfsdottir, but the worst thing is this is just 1 out of many things that ruins the immersion. But lets be honest they have a 87% positive review score (which i still don't really get looking at Bannerlords state) so the higher ups belive they're on the right track.
It's easy. The games are more and more mass-product now. It's not the thing for niche kind of people or audience. Everyone now more or less plays the games. And MOST people tend to prefer their games being casual and not very deep. Pretty graphics and easy to learn controls and you're done.

People who bother to register to forums are more pretentious gamers but they (we) are minority in fact. The rating comes from majority though. And money too.

Now look at Mass Effect: Andromeda - horrible, terrible, horrendous abomination of a game if you compare it to Mass Effect trilogy, but it got 90% of bashing not because of its real flaws (Like terrible characters, terrible story, terrible world-building, terrible lore, terrible villains, terrible main quest, terrible side-quests, terrible crafting system etc etc etc) but because it had bugs and glitches. And they usually praise Andromeda for having shiny graphics and good shooting mechanics. As if shooting mechanics is what draws people to RPGs. In fact we were lucky that game had bugs and glitches so it pissed off those casual gamers, or else, EA would continue to milk Mass Effect franchise till this day.


Curious if you've seen this guy -he posted here on forums -who figured out how to make caravans profitable
Haven't seen that, but still looks like too little coin if you want to keep high tier garrison and high tier army. The thing is, you SHOULD be able to keep one castle garrison no matter the tier if you own few enterprises and caravans, though it is impossible today. (It was impossible even before nerf)
 
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Rungsted93

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
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0
I agree once again, but take a look at No Man's sky it didn't have much depth (like Bannerlord) and that was reflected by the amount of negative reviews as well. The problem here is if No Man's sky had a 87% positive rating, they would've never improved it as much as they did.
 
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2
The 87% positive review score (on steam at least) is all from people who left meme reviews within minutes of the game releasing. I honestly think people should be forced to play at least 2 hours of the game before reviewing, and get prompted to leave a review if they refund it. Otherwise it just amounts to a shallow popularity contest.
 

rektasaurus

Squire
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0
I didn’t know people relied on steam reviews to buy a game. I’d imagine steam reviews are less trustworthy than yelp
 

ste636

Sergeant
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I didn’t know people relied on steam reviews to buy a game. I’d imagine steam reviews are less trustworthy than yelp
You need to use it reversed.
I read the negative reviews, usually they give me a pretty good idea about the game, obviously you need to "read between the lines" and understand that the truth is often the opposite of the text you are reading.
Off course, if you take such reviews as true, you'd miss out on many amazing games.
Kenshi is a great example, "meme generation" boys leave terrible reviews because the game does not cater to them, it means it's the perfect game for me...and actually is incredibly well made.
 

Wulfsdottir

Sergeant
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0
I agree once again, but take a look at No Man's sky it didn't have much depth (like Bannerlord) and that was reflected by the amount of negative reviews as well. The problem here is if No Man's sky had a 87% positive rating, they would've never improved it as much as they did.
Hmm, Never played no man's sky, so don't know what to answer about it.
Another reason for vastly positive reviews is I think what @Kentucky James VII says below.

You need to use it reversed.
I read the negative reviews, usually they give me a pretty good idea about the game, obviously you need to "read between the lines" and understand that the truth is often the opposite of the text you are reading.
Off course, if you take such reviews as true, you'd miss out on many amazing games.
Kenshi is a great example, "meme generation" boys leave terrible reviews because the game does not cater to them, it means it's the perfect game for me...and actually is incredibly well made.
This.
And with time you learn to understand quality reviews and distinguish them frompoor fanboy/hater reviews. And reading between the lines comes with experience too.
 

ste636

Sergeant
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0
Hmm, Never played no man's sky, so don't know what to answer about it.
Another reason for vastly positive reviews is I think what @Kentucky James VII says below.


This.
And with time you learn to understand quality reviews and distinguish them frompoor fanboy/hater reviews. And reading between the lines comes with experience too.
To do that you need to have the "common sense" perk, which you unlock after the "critic sense" in the "read and comprehension" tree...

Usually players can get to such perk tree by year of birth, there are some exceptions fortunately, but usually it opens with the amount of hours played "IRL":wink:
 

Honved

Knight
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0
A lot of the reviews are by players who put 10-20 hours into the game at most, fight a couple of battles, and think "This is awesome", without reaching the point where they begin to wonder "Is this all there is to it?". Unless someone has 50-100 hours of SP playing time, and covers a few points of the longer-term aspects of the game, I'm not going to take their review as anything meaningful for my own experience. Anyone can buy the game, take a quick look at the shiny graphics for 2 minutes, and then write a glowing review, and it's clear that some players do that just to be one of the first to review it. Spam, in my opinion. I don't buy games designed for 20 hours of playing time.
 

AxiosXiphos

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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0
A lot of the reviews are by players who put 10-20 hours into the game at most, fight a couple of battles, and think "This is awesome", without reaching the point where they begin to wonder "Is this all there is to it?". Unless someone has 50-100 hours of SP playing time, and covers a few points of the longer-term aspects of the game, I'm not going to take their review as anything meaningful for my own experience. Anyone can buy the game, take a quick look at the shiny graphics for 2 minutes, and then write a glowing review, and it's clear that some players do that just to be one of the first to review it. Spam, in my opinion. I don't buy games designed for 20 hours of playing time.
You must buy very few games...
 

froggyluv

Master Knight
NW
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0
I wrote a positive review for BL after a few hours play as i saw that the new combat (singleplayer) was far more visceral and exciting than Warband and to me thats at the crux of the game. Knowing it was in early release id figure anyone else reading it would realize its an early build but anyone looking for similar attributes as me would enjoy it. Probably own over 100 games on Steam and most games i can tell within 40 minutes if we have a future together or not - A Far Cry/Rainbow Ubi type game quickly lets me know this is the same old tripe, primitive "accesible" gameplay with fancy new GUI's and cutscenes.

Steam should probably have a 2-3 step Edit Update feature for reviewing EA titles as I would surely warn people that the Kingdom aspect of the game is bare bone skeletal.

Edit: Just to note Multiplayer combat Warband still owns hands down
 

The Great Grub

Veteran
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They advertise the game as an RPG and say that you can achieve your goals in different ways, while the game is also sandbox.
Now as of today, you can't achieve your goals in different ways. You can't really get enjoyment in being trader or bandit, or something. You have basically one course of action. To fight fight fight fight... sell the loot or become smith and make javelins if you want income.

The statement that workshops and caravans work as intended is laughable. So, I can have 3 caravans and 3 workshops and castle with 2 villages that can not provide me enough funds to pay for my moderate squad and garrison?

What's the point in even having a castle if I can't afford to have best garrison for it and be sure they can defend themselves while I am bit away? So if I want to pay for tier 6 troops and a garrison I just HAVE to make javelins and/or constantly fight to sell the loot. So what about playing as a smart diplomat, or wealthy merchant who doesn't want to achieve her goals through piles of bodies and bloodshed. What about diplomacy? What about economy? Noooo the game says. Fight and make javelins, fight and make javelins. At this point even having the workshop have no sense. Even if they provide 100 denars per day (which is rare after last update as I have read) it's a salary of couple of high-end troops and that's it. Imagine having an enterprise that PRODUCES THE ARMOR FOR SALE EN MASSE and all you get from it is paycheck for 2 or 3 of your soldiers. This is ridiculous. If you want it to be hard for a player to own everything, make it harder to get a factory. Make it quest dependent. Make it more expensive to buy. But when you have it, you must feel like you make a difference.

And even fighting means nothing as defeating your enemy has no consequence. They're back in 2 days. No traits mean anything. Cruel lord? raids the village. Honorable one? - nah, he's raiding it too, because f*** honor... it only penalizes YOU, not others. And if you want to change something in this streak of madness, by for example executing the enemy lord who WELL DESERVES it - you suddenly become the hated criminal in the whole world.

I mean... wtf? You captured the guy who was killing innocent farmers in your village. You locked him up in the dungeon. He escaped and came back2 days later doing the same. You captured him again, they paid ransom, you advised him not to do it again... Soon he comes back and does it again. You capture him and give that one last warning, but no... He does it AGAIN... and you, finally pissed off just chop the bastard's head... BUT OH NO... Suddenly YOU are the villain here. HOW?

And this is just one example. The worst part is, the devs not even talk about it. They are just talking about fixing some bugs. And if they say something about game features, they say, it works as intended, like in enterprise case. So the EA is not excuse in this case.

Now, I don't post much, especially lately. I don't create many threads myself and I am generally chill and I wait patiently for updates, but people... enough is enough. You just can't justify everything with EA
Couldn't agree more