Complete lack of Immersion

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Is the TW forums always this toxic?

It is a game in early access and it can go a ton of ways over the years in its development cycle. What the hell is wrong with you guys? I keep reading these toxic childish posts everywhere. What is the point of these posts? Is this your crying corner? Do you have a constructive thing to say?
If not, well then you made a mistake in buying the game. Next time, be careful in buying a game and get a life.

I don't understand what you want. Do you want us to go and assasinate the devs? Do you want us all to cry together over your dissapointment?
>Calling people toxic for being a bit sarcastic about the state of the game
>"Early Access"
>"Be more constructive"
>"Shouldnt have bought the game then"
>"Crying"
>"Childish"

I swear, every single thread has a post just like this. Like down to the exact wording and formatting and everything. It's surreal. Genuine question, are you over 40?
 

dogu91

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>Calling people toxic for being a bit sarcastic about the state of the game
>"Early Access"
>"Be more constructive"
>"Shouldnt have bought the game then"
>"Crying"
>"Childish"

I swear, every single thread has a post just like this. Like down to the exact wording and formatting and everything. It's surreal. Genuine question, are you over 40?
No. Jeez, it was a sarcastic post? I did not go through the whole of it. I read a bunch of posts where people were just crying and was a bit shocked tbh.

And I mean, to anyone who does not like the game, naturally anyone should come up with the early access card. It is EA, read reviews, it is a free market. You can watch whole campaigns all over the internet even. I don't know why people act like they do not know what they are getting into. The game has amazing potential, so stop demotivating the developers and give them something to work with. That is my opinion. I am 10 years below 40.
 
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The reason the "Early Access" argument is such a meme is that Early Access doesn't actually mean anything. Companies slap that label on games that they are still charging full price for. All it does is make people expect the game to get better, but literally every game these days has months if not years of patches post release.

By using EA as an argument you're just doing the job of the PR team for them, i.e. to mislead people into expecting sweeping changes at some unspecified point in the future, and not to complain.
 

MostBlunted

Knight
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The reason the "Early Access" argument is such a meme is that Early Access doesn't actually mean anything.
EA games are just what betas where 10 years ago, free to participate. Helping the devs to improve the game. Those times are gone.

Now devs sell their unfinished product as this beta stuff and call it EA. Sad times. But a lot of people are fine with this. There are also a lot of good EA games, don´t get me wrong. But they´re at least honest in their EA description and pricing.
 

stevehoos

Grandmaster Knight
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EA games are just what betas where 10 years ago, free to participate. Helping the devs to improve the game. Those times are gone.

Now devs sell their unfinished product as this beta stuff and call it EA. Sad times. But a lot of people are fine with this. There are also a lot of good EA games, don´t get me wrong. But they´re at least honest in their EA description and pricing.
I knew what I was getting into and that features might not work, I just didn't think the game would lack so badly in immersive features.

Another thing:

This game is more like an RPG than a sandbox. It holds your hand telling you when you can and can't do things. Really annoying. You can't form an army because you only have a clan level of 2. Too much of this.
 
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AxiosXiphos

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I knew what I was getting into and that features might not work, I just didn't think the game would lack so badly in immersive features.

Another thing:

This game is more like an RPG than a sandbox. It holds your hand telling you when you can and can't do things. Really annoying. You can't form an army because you only have a clan level of 2. Too much of this.
I mean barely... it doesn't take long to get to the higher clan levels... It's more a way of introducing you to the same and unlocking features over time. However I'm curious what immersive features you would actually want added?
 

stevehoos

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I mean barely... it doesn't take long to get to the higher clan levels... It's more a way of introducing you to the same and unlocking features over time. However I'm curious what immersive features you would actually want added?
Actual connectivity to the in game world as a character for starters.
 

Honved

Knight
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Don't worry, in only another year (or :cool: it will be almost back to where Warband was, AND with shinier graphics.....

Losing what little immersive purpose the relatively lifeless villages served in Warband is a pretty serious step backwards. Granted, it's not too late for TW to fix it, and it can be done later without having to rework other major elements of the game, but it's still rather disturbing. The same can be said for Lord interactions, and several other issues. Individually, they're not that big a concern, because as I say, they're still fixable, but the sum is pretty significant, and it is going to take a LOT of time to implement improvements just to get back to where the last game was.
 

stevehoos

Grandmaster Knight
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That's a really vague ask... haha

Speaking mechanically what function do you want to happen in the game?
A reason to visit town and village scenes, actual courting based on culture and status instead a %, and actual diplomacy.
 

froggyluv

Master Knight
NW
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Play some more...you just started:smile:
Found Warband Vanilla incredibly dull affair. Yes it had actual working mechanics like feast etc... but that game just felt like stale bread for me. The MP on the other hand is my most played MP game of any game in over 25 years PC gaming
 

AxiosXiphos

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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A reason to visit town and village scenes, actual courting based on culture and status instead a %, and actual diplomacy.
I'm confused what reasons where there? For villages you could occssionally give money to the locals for a one off relation boost. You were forced to speak to the town mayor for quests (which you can still do but the option is there to skip it). In both games peasants comment on recent events to a small degree... There was no other reason to go to villages except the quest to find the missing person (which pretty much exists in bannerlord but in two different versions).

As for towns it was largely the same except sub village elder for another quest giver. There was still no reason to go to the town. Again bannerlord has actual quests that operate in the town scenes now - something warband never had...

I have a strong feeling you are remembering mod mechanics not vanilla mechanics...

As for courting - the warband system was near enough identical except dragged out over a much longer period; TW have already said that this is still to be worked on in bannerlord.

Finally diplomacy in Native warband was very very limited. I believe once again you are remembering a modded version of the game. In warband there was war, peace, and lords defected. That's it...
 

froggyluv

Master Knight
NW
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Again bannerlord has actual quests that operate in the town scenes now - something warband never had...
What do you mean by this? Alls i do is check on the Lord with the Exclamation point on him and that brings up the dialogue screen so still no reason for me to go wandering about. Id like a reason - still think they need to place NPC that can attack you without you initiating anything. Rather than just Civilians, have some enemy faction guys hanging out possibly following player so you gotta watch your back, or occasionally having mysterious riders bolting briskly thru town and they MAY cause trouble. How awesome would that be - and probably not that hard to do
 

Magello

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Just a question but has TW ever mentioned assassinations? I think this could really add to the diplomacy of the game, especially with the permadeath system.
 

StewVader

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This is a post from @guiskj in another thread but it nails Bannerlord's immersion problem and I think should be spread far and wide:

"Variety is the spice of life"

In Bannerlord, fighting is really fun. But it is the only fun part of the game. And only in the early-mid game as afterwards your army is so large that you are forced into a commander role.

All the other gameplay features in the game are some form of a Skinner Box.
  • Village Issues are terrible and allow for almost 0 roleplay. Honestly they are in the same level of fetch quests in MMO to me.
    • Look at Skyrim's radiant quests. They are as shallow as fetch quests or Village Issues, but they reinforce the game's core mechanic of exploration and, therefore, are actually meaningful.
    • I use that as an example to showcase that Village Issues add nothing to the game except yet another Skinner Box to fool the player into thinking the game has content.
  • Economy is complex but that does not automatically mean fun. The economy is mostly manipulated through passive means (caravans and workshops) instead through player agency. Worst of all, it is convoluted from the players perspective and it does not tie itself back to any other system of gameplay in meaningful ways.
  • Diplomacy is similar, the system seems complex enough to handle interesting scenarios but it fails for three main reasons:
    • 1. Very little player agency until late game
    • 2. Many many policies with very small impacts. At one point I was in a kingdom with half of all the policies active and it felt 0% different than if none of them were active.
    • 3. It, again, does not tie into any other mechanic in the game.
      • Why as one of the most powerful merchants in Calradia I cannot affect Kingdom policies accross multiple factions?
      • Why as one of the most powerful lords in my faction I cannot "punch above my clan weight"?
  • Role playing is impossible outside of player imagination. None of the game mechanics really support RP focused play. This is fine if it is by design, but if you want to be an Action game with RP+Strategy features sprinkled in (leveling system, character creation, troop tactics), make sure that these supporting mechanics actually, you know, support your core game mechanic (Action). Throwing mechanics in game because it feels like they should be there is poor game design.
    • The traits are something particularly egregious (honour, devious, etc). Nothing ties into this from a player perspective.
  • Disjoint game mechanics. I have touched on this in my points above but it really needs its own bullet. NONE of the game mecahnics interact in meaningful ways.
  • War is CONSTANT and therefore BORING
  • Character progression does not introduce any new player mechanic, it is ALL passive apart from very few perks like the "everything has a price". (I dislike that perk for RP reasons, but at least it unlocks something new)
  • The world does not tell a story. There is very little sense of history or the impact of the passage of time. This is different from having a Main Quest line. Games can tell a compelling story without having a predefined narrative, just look at CK2.

And I agree that all the games mechanic are not fully impemented (Economy, War, Diplomacy, Leveling, Troop Tactics, etc.), but even at their partial state it is evident that there is little connective tissue between them.

It feels like the game was "designed" by a group of people saying "Oh, mechanic X is cool, lets add that" instead of "What is the essence of Bannerlord? OK, let's add mechanics that reinforce that".
 

NordicWill

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Just a question but has TW ever mentioned assassinations? I think this could really add to the diplomacy of the game, especially with the permadeath system.
IDK if they are but i think that would be cool to add. Especially during feast and having quest that night where you attempt to assist or defend a lord or king in a game of throne like "red wedding scenario".
 

Rhaskos

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Yeah I definitely get this vibe. I don't think anyone making the actual decisions on bannerlord really knows anything about game design.
This game gives me Elite Dangerous vibes if anyone has played that game, in that it's like a single player MMO. You can grind relations with dozens (hundreds?) of faceless NPCs, you can collect countless auto generated companions, you can grind sieges across the enormous map (which has no character) and so on, and none of it has any payoff.

Edit: I know ED isn't single player but it might as well be