Complete lack of Immersion

[voronius]

They had 8 years to learn from their mistakes (in Warband, from what ppl reported back). And still they managed to make a game
that's worse than warband in many aspects (same issues even, like lords escaping and comming back with full army next day).

 

[El Capitan]

They had 8 years to learn from their mistakes (in Warband, from what ppl reported back). And still they managed to make a game
that's worse than warband in many aspects (same issues even, like lords escaping and comming back with full army next day).

That's the point i'm trying to make, if they cant even get the basics right (Prison escapes, Steam rolling, economy, Black smithing) with the wealth of information and feedback they have then never mind immersive features/mechanics.

Whats going to save this game for me, vanilla wise is when they implement death and succession. I think this feature is what they got right, I just hope they don't scrap it. like what they did to ambushes and village management.

 

[El Capitan]

It happens because lords are using their garrisons to reload. I agree that it's bs, but what I find more frustrating is how easy lords escape. I don't feel like lords should be able to held forever but a week or 2 is long enough to give the player a breather, but I've had lords escape in 2 days and that's while in a dungeon.

I suspect TW purposefully made it easy for lords to escape, to try to prevent snowballing. I understand that once a stack of lords in an army gets defeated and captured, it leaves their kingdom open for steam rolling but my view is that you can easily stop this by making weakened faction sue fro peace immediately and accept tribute terms.

 

[ZavodilaSauklus]

Sure

? ? ? Cool GIF

 

[black_bulldog]

I suspect TW purposefully made it easy for lords to escape, to try to prevent snowballing. I understand that once a stack of lords in an army gets defeated and captured, it leaves their kingdom open for steam rolling but my view is that you can easily stop this by making weakened faction sue fro peace immediately and accept tribute terms.

Oh I understand why TW is doing it but at least 5 days before a prisoner can get out isn't too much to ask. If they really were concerned with snowballing they wouldn't give the Khuzait have the most OP racial trait along with having T2 troops that are mounted.

 

[El Capitan]

Oh I understand why TW is doing it but at least 5 days before a prisoner can get out isn't too much to ask. If they really were concerned with snowballing they wouldn't give the Khuzait have the most OP racial trait along with having T2 troops that are mounted.

Yeah its frustrating to see lords escape after a few days of captivity. If I remember correctly, isn't there a riding perk that makes it hard for lords to escape? not sure if that's working though.

I know right? increased map speed and troops consisting of mainly cav is OP af. You chase one khuzait party, then they lead you to their friends. you try to run but they all catch up to you, boom you're dead. cant even escape even though you have a billion horses in your inventory. I think another reason why they steam roll kingdoms is that they can gang up on parties or armies very easily and obliterate them with both their map and battle mobility and numerical advantage.

 

[StewVader]

I suspect TW purposefully made it easy for lords to escape, to try to prevent snowballing. I understand that once a stack of lords in an army gets defeated and captured, it leaves their kingdom open for steam rolling but my view is that you can easily stop this by making weakened faction sue fro peace immediately and accept tribute terms.

The game won't work if prisoners could be held for a reasonable amount of time. Its a fundamental and fatal flaw of the game.

Lords can't be held for very long and MUST spawn with a core troop party (cheated in) otherwise one significant army vs army loss would have them lose a significant amount of territory. Then, whoever wins that territory would snowball over the other factions.

Its jut a lose lose though. Because the system we have no is not satisfying and is just ridiculous.

 

[Androme1]

That's the point i'm trying to make, if they cant even get the basics right (Prison escapes, Steam rolling, economy, Black smithing) with the wealth of information and feedback they have then never mind immersive features/mechanics.

Whats going to save this game for me, vanilla wise is when they implement death and succession. I think this feature is what they got right, I just hope they don't scrap it. like what they did to ambushes and village management.

Death and succession has never been an integral part of the Mount & Blade series, the notion that those mechanics would in any way shape or form be important to Bannerlord becoming a good game is a myth. They are bloat mechanics that nobody asked for that should be scrapped and the resources and time be spent on actually important stuff that are integral to the Mount & Blade series that is missing from Bannerlord.

 

[El Capitan]

Death and succession has never been an integral part of the Mount & Blade series, the notion that those mechanics would in any way shape or form be important to Bannerlord becoming a good game is a myth. They are bloat mechanics that nobody asked for that should be scrapped and the resources and time be spent on actually important stuff that are integral to the Mount & Blade series that is missing from Bannerlord.

I would have to disagree with you on that, I think the death and succession mechanic is is probably what will give this game some great depth and immersiveness . Yeah you might be right in saying that no one asked for it but I for one welcome it wholeheartedly and am actually looking forward for when they implement it. I think TW got this part right and hope they don't scrap it.

If you scrap the death and succession mechanic, you would then have to scrap the children feature. Who honestly thinks that having kids, passing on your lands/title to them and playing as them is a bloat feature. If you get rid of this, all you would have is fighting and I don't know what else, this game is already lacking any meaningful strategy, right now it's basically just an arcade hack and slash. The last thing you need is to get rid of probably one of the coolest planned features.

Another thing, having kids and eventually playing as them makes the game so dynamic and re playable. Bottom line is the game needs depth.

 

[StewVader]

I would have to disagree with you on that, I think the death and succession mechanic is is probably what will give this game some great depth and immersiveness . Yeah you might be right in saying that no one asked for it but I for one welcome it wholeheartedly and am actually looking forward for when they implement it. I think TW got this part right and hope they don't scrap it.

If you scrap the death and succession mechanic, you would then have to scrap the children feature. Who honestly thinks that having kids, passing on your lands/title to them and playing as them is a bloat feature. If you get rid of this, all you would have is fighting and I don't know what else, this game is already lacking any meaningful strategy, right now it's basically just an arcade hack and slash. The last thing you need is to get rid of probably one of the coolest planned features.

Another thing, having kids and eventually playing as them makes the game so dynamic and re playable. Bottom line is the game needs depth.

For sure. The game needs way more depth. Its currently a puddle, nothing to do but hack and slash.

The issue I have with the succession system is, it just doesn't make any sense with the game's dynamic or environment. There are not enough fiefs to warrant a succession system, and fiefs are assigned to Clans not individuals. Succession doesn't even make sense given the above.

 

[El Capitan]

For sure. The game needs way more depth. Its currently a puddle, nothing to do but hack and slash.

The issue I have with the succession system is, it just doesn't make any sense with the game's dynamic or environment. There are not enough fiefs to warrant a succession system, and fiefs are assigned to Clans not individuals. Succession doesn't even make sense given the above.

Yes, another issue I see is clans getting wiped out. As it stands, there are some clans that only have 2-5 members and if character death was implemented, these clans wouldn't even last long enough for their children to grow up and some don't even start with children. I guess they would need to have more members for death to work?

The thing I love about the character death mechanic is that I'll finally be able to have the chance to kill the lords I hate (monchug) without clans in calradia hating my guts. Another thing I like about this, is battles are going to be a lot more fun and actually meaningful since every battle will have the chance of a lord to getting wacked. Just imagine charging the centre of the enemy formation and heroically nuking an enemy lord with a laser guided javelin to the face and actually killing them. Ohhhhh so much potential...

 

[Ettenrocal]

The issue I have with the succession system is, it just doesn't make any sense with the game's dynamic or environment. There are not enough fiefs to warrant a succession system, and fiefs are assigned to Clans not individuals. Succession doesn't even make sense given the above.

A clan (in Bannerlord logic) must be seen as a very basic noble family who can hold fiefs (which doesn't fit with the feeling of Bannerlrod that they are important noble house) and you're right in this way there is not enough fiefs cause basically a clan = a fief when in reality a fief keep a fief and is bound to some lords (that can accumulate fiefs) and also most of times to "upper" fiefs if you inherit a little lordship you would probably have to swear allegiance to the same higher lord as the previous owner. If you have 2 castles and 3 sons and 6 companions what will happen when you die? Normally i would say first son would get fief of his father second fief of his mother and the third would need to make a good mariage...The companions are more retainers that act like captains in service of the lord (clan leader) cause you can remove them at any moment from their governorship of castle without any reason, i don't have many exemples exemples in history right now in my mind where a lord took over fief to his vassals or family but it surely can happen if they break vassality contract (you hold a fief for a lord if you respect the vassality rules: just happen a moment where you so powerful not even the king can't give you orders). There is also a mismatch about companions that becomes clan members so kind of family members when for me they are more kind of vassals (despite the fact they probably not even are nobles...), but there it not a real vassality system also in Bannerlord (the clans have no vassality links between each others). So a clan is basic noble family but is also not related with other clans (with vassality links) so yes succession system have not real purpose in this very basic system: there is no hierarchy in the nobles families, what the point of making good mariage in this sytem? All this is is not very clear and a very simple system compares to reality. It was not very common at start but happened in later middle ages that some lords were vassals of two different lords which brings some trouble into game of powers!

Yes, another issue I see is clans getting wiped out. As it stands, there are some clans that only have 2-5 members and if character death was implemented, these clans wouldn't even last long enough for their children to grow up and some don't even start with children. I guess they would need to have more members for death to work?

In reality i think a lord would not fight so often in so many skirmishes, but would use his retainers to lead the less important fights, when you think of it a great lord passing his time to grind looters Would be cool that you can keep sitting on your throne to preserve your life and control instead a companion or a retainer to make the dirty work (would be fun to kill many retainers in your service this way ) So for death to work more members or a system were you have retainers.

 

[Skjuld]

For sure. The game needs way more depth. Its currently a puddle, nothing to do but hack and slash.

The issue I have with the succession system is, it just doesn't make any sense with the game's dynamic or environment. There are not enough fiefs to warrant a succession system, and fiefs are assigned to Clans not individuals. Succession doesn't even make sense given the above.

Not only that, but the timescale of the game is wrong. Death and succession are crucial in a "strategic" game like CKII where time is measured in seasons and the focus is on dynasty and kingdom building.

In a "tactical" game like BL where the timescale is days or even minutes, it's out of whack. To implement it, TW had to make the character start quite old for the period, despite being a complete rookie and make him/her age unnaturaly fast. Plus, the rapidity of the wars and conquests don't mesh with such a mechanism either.

BL design feels like TW wants it to be a lot of things at the same time. And the parts don't fit together. There's no clear focus to the design, contrarily to WB or VC.

 

[RoboSenshi]

BL design feels like TW wants it to be a lot of things at the same time. And the parts don't fit together. There's no clear focus to the design, contrarily to WB or VC.

+1

 

[MostBlunted]

In a "tactical" game like BL where the timescale is days or even minutes, it's out of whack.

Tactical?

It´s Call of Duty Medieval right now.

 

[ste636]

Tactical?

It´s Call of Duty Medieval right now.

And that's why there are issues among players.
The new comers are drawn from those shooters or "competitive" MP games, they come looking for action in a slow paced game that should require intensive use of brain.
There i s a huge clash of culture, manners and I guess age for the most part.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Not only that, but the timescale of the game is wrong. Death and succession are crucial in a "strategic" game like CKII where time is measured in seasons and the focus is on dynasty and kingdom building.

In a "tactical" game like BL where the timescale is days or even minutes, it's out of whack. To implement it, TW had to make the character start quite old for the period, despite being a complete rookie and make him/her age unnaturaly fast.

I don't fundamentally have an issue with this, the timescale is out of whack in most games, especially strategy. The problem is the pacing of both the RPG stuff and the strategy stuff don't work, even on their own.

And that's why there are issues among players.
The new comers are drawn from those shooters or "competitive" MP games, they come looking for action in a slow paced game that should require intensive use of brain.
There i s a huge clash of culture, manners and I guess age for the most part.

citation needed, this sounds like ageist gatekeeper BS to me. pics or it didn't happen

By their own admission, lots of warband people come from games like Total War and EU4 / CK2 which are even slower and less action based than mount and blade. Also people are perfectly capable of liking different types of games.

 

[MostBlunted]

By their own admission, lots of warband people come from games like Total War and EU4 / CK2 which are even slower and less action based than mount and blade. Also people are perfectly capable of liking different types of games.

I think they just want to get the attention of all of those CoD / Battlefield players because of money.

Even a 300vs300 battle is over in under 5min in like 9/10 times.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever for this. The idea that Call of Duty's multiplayer deathmatch gameplay directly influences the entire gaming industry, even singleplayer games, has been this weird truism that I've seen since the mid 2000s. I could understand back then when we were inundated by brown scripted shooters, but nowadays COD and Battlefield are like ancient relics of the Obama era with most games having completely moved on. To blame the fast pace of battles on "appealing to the COD crowd" is kind of ridiculous.

 

[MostBlunted]

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever for this.

True, but there is also no evidence against it...

But at least soon CK3 will be here.