Competitive Random Plains, Calling all map makers!!!
- 主题发起人 KoA John
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It doesn't have to be abused: just add barrier boxes in haystacks to prevent hiding in them. A fairly standard trick.John7 说:Port Assault hay
Many bad memories
On another note, may I suggest that Marnid (and other tournament admins) pledges replacing random open maps with the manually crafted ones in the official map choice of NASTe. Would be a good incentive for Balion map makers to be involved, for example.
NASTe is over, but it doesn't matter if tournament organizers want these maps over random maps. Server owners need to put the maps on their servers, and that's a pain in the ass when they already have things like the ENL admin mod (which adds its own custom maps).
I would definitely support preset maps of this nature instead of randomly generated maps if the issue of distribution was resolved.
I would definitely support preset maps of this nature instead of randomly generated maps if the issue of distribution was resolved.
I meant the next season (don't tell me there's not going to be one!).Orion 说:
Well, I think what would help is either integrating the maps in the ENL mod or deriving a mod for NA from the ENL one that would incorporate the maps (should be easy, but does anyone know if there are any licence constraints on that?). As for deploying the maps on the servers, I think if the next big battle tournament endorses the module and requires it to be installed on the server, the competitive clans will update their servers. Correct me if I'm wrong but the ENL mod wasn't installed on any US servers until NASTe adopted it (well, maybe, the WarRoom had it in advance). And there seems to be a consensus in the NA competitive community that we need good pre-made plains maps instead of the random ones (I remember the question being brought up before).Orion 说:
KissMyAxe 说:
If there is one, it's going to be a while before it starts. I'm pretty sure I don't want to run another season myself. I'm working with Commissar on the dueling ladder, and there are a few surprises in store. He's going to run it, not me, and it's gonna be good.
I added these to the event server.
Custom map 1 - Vendigr
Custom map 2 - Azan
I agree with Marnid that Vendigr's is a bit small, and I think the water is too deep. Plains are chosen for a cav advantage, and the deep water and sloped hills from the spawns make this favor archers.
Custom map 1 - Vendigr
Custom map 2 - Azan
I agree with Marnid that Vendigr's is a bit small, and I think the water is too deep. Plains are chosen for a cav advantage, and the deep water and sloped hills from the spawns make this favor archers.
Dropped a bomb on Port Assault
http://www.mediafire.com/?g57nej8vt1t2fam
This is available on USA_Central_Event as (ENL 3.2.0) Custom map 3
I didn't mess with the AI mesh, and they get very confused by the impenetrable foot-high wall.
http://www.mediafire.com/?g57nej8vt1t2fam
插入代码块:
scn_multi_bay_farm multi_bay_farm 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 100.000000 100.000000 -100.000000 0x000000013003d7e30005053f00003b4e0000146300006e84
0
0
outer_terrain_beachThis is available on USA_Central_Event as (ENL 3.2.0) Custom map 3
I didn't mess with the AI mesh, and they get very confused by the impenetrable foot-high wall.
Madnes5
idk why ppl are so against hills and rivers it makes the teams adapt and not be able to go into plains with a set gameplan cuz its *random* plains I definitely like the idea of having a few maps that are like plains to have a nice evenly sided field but at the same time random plains is random plains u cant expect to just replace that with a map or two from some modders.
robocop off nuts
robocop off nuts
To answer you kush, plains rolls, on average, tack 10 minutes to match time. Also, the rules in CJTT allowed the team that called plains to roll until they had faction advantage with either rolling hills or a flat plain. The purpose behind swapping teams was negated because of these rolls. Having a random "plains" map that is the same on the swap for both teams will speed up the game, and make it fair for both teams on the swap.
I know you don't like fair things. I like plains maps primarily because they piss you off.
I know you don't like fair things. I like plains maps primarily because they piss you off.
Madnes5
I dont know what gave you that impression I love plains maps they are awesome.
They take 10 minutes to match because plains has this reroll tihng which has been added to tourniesand everyone agrees sucks.. So i was saying that with cliffs and rivers being allowed and no real rerolls taking place because ppl would just play the map infront of them instead of oh lets wait until we get the best advantage..
They take 10 minutes to match because plains has this reroll tihng which has been added to tourniesand everyone agrees sucks.. So i was saying that with cliffs and rivers being allowed and no real rerolls taking place because ppl would just play the map infront of them instead of oh lets wait until we get the best advantage..
Random plains with no rerolls is appealing. I still think it would be abused by having players not spawn, faking afks and such. There wouldn't be a way to have a completely random map unless it was confirmed by both teams before the map change that the map was live. Teams with AFKers would have to suck it up.
That would force dynamic class changes, and make for some interesting, and in most cases, unfair battles.
Edit: It would be interesting to have a tourney set up with predetermined maps and factions, first map forced as random plains (with some rules to enforce the first map rolled will be played). Every match would start with a completely random map. I think in some cases, the roll might determine a winner, but in most it would favor a team that could adapt quickly.
That would force dynamic class changes, and make for some interesting, and in most cases, unfair battles.
Edit: It would be interesting to have a tourney set up with predetermined maps and factions, first map forced as random plains (with some rules to enforce the first map rolled will be played). Every match would start with a completely random map. I think in some cases, the roll might determine a winner, but in most it would favor a team that could adapt quickly.
Madnes5
Fehnor 说:
I think the custom plains map would best be suited for that scenario
but yea I agree
Some of you already know this. I'm putting together a map pack intended to replace Random Plains for competitive play, codenamed PiMP (Plains Map Pack). I am working on a couple of maps, and I'm looking for submissions from other mappers as well. I intend to have at least 3, but preferably 5, strong plains-type maps, offering diverse geography -- some will have a more rugged terrain, some will have rivers, some are going to be predominantly flat -- to cater to different tactical visions.
I am planning to use the map pack in a battle tournament I'm working on. But I will also release the map pack to be freely available for other tournaments and for inclusion in modules. I will do my best to accommodate the suggestions that have so far been posted in this thread. Further suggestions are welcome.
If you are a mapper interested in submitting a map, please, let me know ASAP.
I am planning to use the map pack in a battle tournament I'm working on. But I will also release the map pack to be freely available for other tournaments and for inclusion in modules. I will do my best to accommodate the suggestions that have so far been posted in this thread. Further suggestions are welcome.
If you are a mapper interested in submitting a map, please, let me know ASAP.
If you submit a map to me, please, agree to the following:
- You allow me or any other person authorised by me to release your maps as a part of a map pack to be distributed freely
- Your nickname will be included in the list of authors of the map pack, unless you indicate otherwise
- The maps will be playtested and you agree to make corrections to the maps based on my initial comment and the playtesting afterwards
- You allow me to make changes to the maps to fix bugs, balance, visual and performance issues.
- Map size should be between 380-by-380 and 420-by-420. The size of Random Plains Medium in 1.153 is 402-by-402, Random Steppe Medium is 399-by-399, Field by the River is 383-by-388. I've used Swyter's terrain code tool to decode map size from the terrain codes of the respective maps. Starting with the module_scenes lines for "random_multi_plain_medium" and "random_multi_steppe_medium", but removing sf_randomize and sf_auto_entry_points seems like a good place to start. Unfortunately, none of the maps submitted to the thread so far meet this requirement.
- Maps should be predominantly open, with very few to no buildings. Absolutely no buildings in the central part of the map, except for bridges. Smaller "man-made" props (small fences, campfires, signs etc) are allowed freely. But, keep in mind: this should be an open country side. If you need ideas, look at the following posts: 1, 2, 3 and 4.
- Maps should not be perfect upon first submission, but they will be perfect when released in the map pack. That means: no glitches (e.g. possibility to get stuck in or between props), no visual artefacts and only correct bounding boxes on trees (e.g. no arrows stuck on empty air near trees). I will work with you to correct any bugs.
- Visual aesthetics are important, but playability, fairness and challenge are paramount.
- Consider making maps interesting from tactical standpoint: for example, even if you make an open and cavalry-friendly map, consider archers/infantry and give them some cover and protection against horses. The more diverse you make it, the more interesting and challenging it is to play.
- Have 3 Master of the Field flags that are in different parts of the map
- Please, be careful with props that can obscure a player but have no bounding boxes (e.g., hay stacks, vineyards, wheat). People can hide in there gaining an unfair advantage: shooting without being identified, making it hard to read movements in melee, ambushes etc. Please, consider putting barriers or barrier boxes to prevent players from hiding in these props.
Public playtests will be conducted for every map that is considered for inclusion in the map pack. So far, the administrators USA_Central_Event, Balion_WarRoom and Unicorns_Oval_Office have agreed to host playtests. Previews of the map pack will be deployed on USA_Central_Event as soon as they are available. I will post more details about previews and playtests at a later date.
Fehnor 说:
You're pulling numbers out of your ass. Most of my matches on random plains don't consist of 10 minutes of plains rolls, and I've never seen this figure cited before. It doesn't take 10 minutes to reroll a map, even if you do it 20 times. Are you saying the average number of rerolls is greater than 20? I find that difficult to believe.
You and Madness have also shown your ignorance of the implications of the cliff rule. Its purpose is to ensure that legal random plains maps are within reasonable expectations of a map that is labeled as plains. As such, there can be no abrupt or excessive deviations in terrain. So, while rolling hills are still legal, they should never be excessively hilly because of the limitations set by the cliff rule. That means every legal map falls within the reasonable expectations of plains, and as such are never too drastically different from one another. If you think faction advantage is such a huge deal with the plains rerolls, perhaps you shouldn't pick factions that are situational on plains. That's a strategic decision, not an issue with the rules. Using knowledge of the metagame you can get a faction on random plains that can work with rolling hills or flat terrain, and be fine both ways.
But please, if you have a better way of making sure that random plains maps are actually plains all the time, please tell me. I'd love to hear it now, though I would have preferred to hear it months ago when the rule was first made.
Oh, and if you thinks plains are all super flat, I have news for you: I live in the middle of a pretty damn big plain, and it's not that flat.
