Was too tired to post anything yesterday, but I did discuss the maps with teams afterwards. Thanks to Eternal, crazyboy11 and Mad Dawg for enlightening discussions! Here's a summary of the notes I took during the playtest and during the discussion afterwards, so it's a mixture of my comments and the comments of the teams. Btw, we also tested Vendigr's River Valley afterwards.
Bay Farm
The map is "one-sided", the bay (dunes) are where the action is with the field and the road being rarely used (and when used it was mostly cav fights only). Although some archers/inf have flanked from the road, it was to mixed success as they were frequently easy prey for cavalry.
Some said that putting some buildings in the field, maybe even a tower in the center would give more cover in the field making it a viable route for ground troops and "something to fight for".
What I liked is that the map has a welcome change from the Random Plains' usual set-up (archer/cav split, or even more cav): we have seen layouts that were heavy on ground troops (infantry and ranged) and few cavalry, not to say that cavalry wasn't effective.
Overall, everybody had the impression that the map has a great potential and is a lot of fun to play.
I'll think about it more, but here's one suggestion I had in mind: what if we make the dunes part more narrow, so one couldn't effectively flank while staying in dunes. That way the risky flanking move via the road will have more reward. And I'm not sure what to do with the field: I'd be weary of adding buildings/ruins there as that has the potential of making the map mixed instead of open. Maybe, put some more trees or rocks in the field?
Suno Valley
I was surprised that Suno Valley favored cavalry (especially an all cav approach) so much, although in hindsight it should have been expected. Also, the map seemed too big to me when it was played; I think Marnid might have had a smaller map size in mind when he was making the draft. Also, I think the map will definitely benefit from having more trees/rocks for archer cover, especially in the central area.
There were some comments about poor texture work, but that's to be expected as I haven't spent time perfecting them.
The map was deemed too symmetrical, balanced and, hence, boring by some.
There were comments about heavy use of cliff textures and steep walls of the canyons being potentially "glitched" (it was claimed that this fact is the origin of the "no cliff faces" rule when rolling random plains). Personally, that was the first time I've heard that there was something wrong with steep edges and cliff textures apart from their poor accessibility (which is the point of using them in that particular map). If anyone is aware of other
specific concerns regarding steep cliff edges, please, post or PM me.
Some thought that making the MoTFs closer to the center of the map would help. One suggestion was to make
a hill in the middle of the map (where one of the MoTFs is); the hill should be flattened at the top to make cavalry usable. It was also suggested that canyon walls should be less steep.
I'd personally try to put a hill in the center, make the two existing hills lower, smaller and closer to each other, make the canyon walls less steep and the canyons themselves less deep. More trees are necessary too. Stretched bridges are ugly and a better solution should be found.
Open Plain
Predictably, Open Plain has favored a cav-heavy approach. However, while I have expected a more balanced archer/cav split, the teams chose an all-cav approach most often to great success. There were two curious rounds, though, when one of the teams went all-archer and the other team went all-cavalry, and as far as I can remember, the archer side won.
The map has been called "bland", "lacking variety" and "not offering tactical options" by one team and a "perfect open map" by the other.
One of the teams has asked for more cover for archers (hills, trees, rocks). I'll definitely add more trees and rocks to foster a more balanced approach to team layout. The teams will definitely have relatively safe forests close to spawns, however I do believe that contesting the small central hill should be a challenge.
Riverworld
Riverworld started with teams assuming layouts heavy on ranged units, but gradually shifted to predominantly horsemen (or even all horsemen). I imagined the rivers would be a sufficient deterrent for cavalry, encouraging a more positional, ranged heavy play that frequently went to MoTF. However, it didn't play out like that at all: cavalry was bold and audacious. One of the team captains said that it might have been due to the all-cav mindset carried over from the previous map, Open Plains. But the fact still stands that the map does not deter a direct all-cav approach. The map definitely warrants changes to hinder cavalry capabilities.
Some suggestions included:
- make water shallower and make riverbanks higher (but not steep). The other team suggested leaving the water depth as is and definitely not touching the banks, but increasing the width of the rivers.
- add more hills and trees (unanimous)
Also, the team spawns are in a direct line of sight, which one team has deemed undesirable. Adding more hills will alleviate that.
River Valley (Vendigr)
This was probably the best looking map we've played that night (very closely followed by Bay Farm). All the players have appreciated its level of detail. One of the teams seemed to like it more than all others.
The map was also quite fun to play, leading to intense battles while teams contested the island. The team builds were predominantly infantry/archers with at most 1 or 2 horsemen. The small size, the wide river and a lot of trees/rocks definitely hinder cavalry a great deal.
The map seemed to offer a variety of tactical options starting from a head on storming of the island to archers flanking on both sides of the island and establishing crossfire. Cavalry has rarely seen much play.
One of the question I've asked the teams after the match whether they thought it was an open map (I penned as mixed), and both thought that it was. But the small size was noted as well.
Some specifics comments included:
* top spawn has a distinct advantage as they spawn closer to the river and can get to the island faster
* one of the trees on the island is possibly glitched: one could shoot through it (I'll post a screenshot later, but I haven't had a chance to verify it yet).
General suggestions:
* maps should not be symmetrical
* spawns should not be visible from the location of the other spawn
I've got a few map ideas that I'd to work on:
* something the random plains generator will never generate: a swamp. This has the potential of being a relatively flat map that does not favor cavalry so much as to warrant dropping all the other classes (the all-cav charge).
* I remember enjoying the random plains maps that had a few major hills. That led to varied positional play for archers (flanking, circling etc) and short surgical strikes by cavalry. The rounds often went to MoTF, and the fights on the flag were intense and a lot of fun. I think a map with 3-4 big hills would be very interesting to play.
* Bay Farm has shown that sand dunes are a lot of fun. How about a desert map with dunes?
This pack has a desert map with dunes, but it is a bit bland. Maybe we can modify it?
Also, I think I have figured out how to select a map from a list at random on the server: might help in bringing the randomness factor back. I'll post details and a demo later in the week.
).
If you change your mind I'd love to see some of the play-throughs
