Companions system and how TW can improve on it

[Ragemaster9999]

One of the most interesting things I find about bannerlord is how cool yet often useless companions are. Companions currently suffer from three main problems I see holding them back for their true potential.

1) Companions lack depth

They all fall into a cookie cutter pre made archetype setup. Their skills are generally very good or near max for their archetype or class. However it leaves out the ability to mold a companion from scratch. To level up and grow the companion with a build we have in mind is something sorely missing from warband.

I'm not advocating getting rid of the highly skilled wanderer type companions. But maybe there should be some sort of gate to recruiting them. Perhaps a quest or a renown required. At any rate, getting a souped up companion for 500 denar is not too balanced which leads me to my next point...

2) Balance is horrible for companions all around.

Leveling combat skills on a companion is extremely difficult and time consuming and mostly not a thing. While other skills such as scouting easily raise by just walking around the map. Overall skill gain for companions is very inconsistent.

Companions like your brother, which are a free quest reward, are literally god tier and the best in the game. Companion mission requirements, to use them in place of you for quests.. is also inconsistent and unbalanced. For example one of the quest requiring drought animals brought to a village requires 90 trade and 115 weapon skill. Why??

3) Companions are not overly impactful in combat.

Companions even with high weapon skill and good equipment will rarely kill more than 1 or 2 troops during a major battle due to the current mechanics. A high weapon skill doesn't seem to make their AI routines noticeable better. A 150 1 hander will still fail to block basic attacks from tier 1 troops .. this is extremely noticeable in the arena while spectating. Armor doesnt help anyone either so the end result is companions in battle don't feel special or impactful at all infact they feel like a highly overpriced t3 unit. I know there's captain perks but without any feedback from the game its hard for the player to even notice if they do anything and in what situations they apply.

These are the three main issues with companions and I hope TW will consider our feedback in making companions as cool and badass as they were meant to be. What do you guys think?

 

[Apocal]

1. The Wronged (Imperial) has minimal skills. You can level her up however you like but it will probably take ten to fifteen years before she is worth a damn at anything except Riding. The Swift is similarly low level. There are probably others like that as well but I ignore combat companions so I can't say anything else firsthand.

2. Yeah, they level up incredibly slowly.

3. We're never going to get the same battle impact that companions had in Warband. Warband had a battle size capped at 300 unless you used mods, so of course one companion counted for a lot more. But against 500 (or more) on the enemy side, they aren't going to stand out as much.

You're right that there are issues with hero AI not performing particularly well. It feels like TW is deliberately holding it back, so you can't have medieval Rambo riding all over and racking up a dozen or more kills.

That being said, I disagree they only get 1 kill per battle. Even neglecting their combat skiils, with bows and polearms on horseback, my companions manage to usually get four or five kills and remain up during a serious fight. The ones I experimentally equipped as Fians (bow, two hander, heavy armor) got 10-15 on average, occasionally 20+. But they were downed much more often.

 

[NamingIsHard]

If you want to have a companian build into the shape you want, there are low-skill companions availiable in Bannerlord, but it takes extremely long time to shape them.
The problem does not lies here in companion system but in wider aspects, like clan management, economy, diplomacy, education, etc.etc. Based on the current numerical design of bannerlord, it's clear that TW want to build a game with longer but slower-pathed playthrough, so the slow grow speed of character does not matter much. However, due to lack of other system, current version of Bannerlord can not support such playthrough.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

1. The Wronged (Imperial) has minimal skills. You can level her up however you like but it will probably take ten to fifteen years before she is worth a damn at anything except Riding. The Swift is similarly low level. There are probably others like that as well but I ignore combat companions so I can't say anything else firsthand.

2. Yeah, they level up incredibly slowly.

3. We're never going to get the same battle impact that companions had in Warband. Warband had a battle size capped at 300 unless you used mods, so of course one companion counted for a lot more. But against 500 (or more) on the enemy side, they aren't going to stand out as much.

You're right that there are issues with hero AI not performing particularly well. It feels like TW is deliberately holding it back, so you can't have medieval Rambo riding all over and racking up a dozen or more kills.

That being said, I disagree they only get 1 kill per battle. Even neglecting their combat skiils, with bows and polearms on horseback, my companions manage to usually get four or five kills and remain up during a serious fight. The ones I experimentally equipped as Fians (bow, two hander, heavy armor) got 10-15 on average, occasionally 20+. But they were downed much more often.

yeah, and one day one of your companion die in battle, and you feel so sad, and start eating ice cream..........
you spend so much time level up companion, and one day he/she die........

campanion in bannerlord is becoming like a product, it will grow new , and the old one die, then you will just get a new one

 

[Apocal]

yeah, and one day one of your companion die in battle, and you feel so sad, and start eating ice cream..........
you spend so much time level up companion, and one day he/she die........

campanion in bannerlord is becoming like a product, it will grow new , and the old one die, then you will just get a new one

You can turn death off when you start a new campaign, you know?

 

[vonbalt]

The current system is good, i like randomly generated companions for variety's sake but i think the game should have a number of pre-made companions with more depth maybe tied to the mainquest like in viking conquest, your siblings could count as that if they had more depth but it's so rushed and devoid of interaction that it doesn't feel like it.

You have one scene with your brother, you part ways to rescue the young ones then he gets captured aswell, you rescue then all, thanks the heavens you came! i'll wait for you in the nearest town and that's it, your younger siblings don't have a single unique dialogue with the player.

Istiana and Azargos for example would make interesting companions tied to the mainquest which are mutually exclusive depending on your choice in the banner quest, i think the game needs more things like that.

Also leveling needs some love, warband had some high level companions but even those could be leveled easily and shaped/enhanced in a direction you found best, leveling seems to take just too long in bannerlord with minimal effects aswell, it doesn't feel rewarding enough.

 

[Lornloth00]

I thought about something like radiant dialogue for each companion. Special occassions results in a companion performing dialogue like in Warband. Things like this happen but not often I think its meant for each companion to comment on things like raiding villages but the game isn't complete so its not added so they can trace bugs. Remember that before the current patch we thought there would not be any noble titles in the game but now they appear. It would take maybe hundreds of lines of dialogue to make every companion we get give the illusion of not being generic. I remember how in the Prophesy of Pendor companions would comment on lords.

With the death system I don't think its feasible for unique companions to exist in Bannerlord, in fact the death system makes each companion special because once they are dead, they are dead and you can't get another instance of that companion in a new campaign. I get attached to the generic ones because they are all unique to a campaign and I use my imagination. When he game has all the perks done and more of the missing dialogue then I think they will add special skills that are unique for companions and more clan roles.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

I thought about something like radiant dialogue for each companion. Special occassions results in a companion performing dialogue like in Warband. Things like this happen but not often I think its meant for each companion to comment on things like raiding villages but the game isn't complete so its not added so they can trace bugs. Remember that before the current patch we thought there would not be any noble titles in the game but now they appear. It would take maybe hundreds of lines of dialogue to make every companion we get give the illusion of not being generic. I remember how in the Prophesy of Pendor companions would comment on lords.

With the death system I don't think its feasible for unique companions to exist in Bannerlord, in fact the death system makes each companion special because once they are dead, they are dead and you can't get another instance of that companion in a new campaign. I get attached to the generic ones because they are all unique to a campaign and I use my imagination. When he game has all the perks done and more of the missing dialogue then I think they will add special skills that are unique for companions and more clan roles.

yeah I am definately turning off the death settings in my next campaign,
I dont't want to feel sad again when my campainion die in battle
so sad, and all my expensive weapon and armor gone with him, I spend so much time riding with him, and he die...... so sad

 

[Apocal]

Things like this happen but not often I think its meant for each companion to comment on things like raiding villages but the game isn't complete so its not added so they can trace bugs.

It is added, has been since near the start of EA. I remember Frostbeards would whine if you raided villages.

 

[Lornloth00]

On the one hand you can gain a fief on the other hand you loose a friend, choices. Or just save scum.

 

[Highest of all Landers]

yeah I am definately turning off the death settings in my next campaign,
I dont't want to feel sad again when my campainion die in battle
so sad, and all my expensive weapon and armor gone with him, I spend so much time riding with him, and he die...... so sad

You can get all the equipment back in the loot screen, the companion is still there until you go back to the world map.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

You can get all the equipment back in the loot screen, the companion is still there until you go back to the world map.

really? okay I didn't noticed the equipment is in the loot

 

[Iberian Wolf]

My hopes are in those findings, but it seems we can't be sure if it will make it to the final version or not.
Quite an interesting long reading, but you may want to skip to companions:

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