Companion levels - I'm not too sure the fix actually fixed anything?

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kopus

Recruit
M&B
The complaint about companions not leveling was due to them coming at high levels with skills close to soft/hard caps. This was supposedly dealt with by reducing the overall number of skills that they had rather than decreasing the individual skill level. Now we have companions that are still difficult to level unless you're choosing to level their 0 level skills that are also less versatile. Not to mention, you'll get companions who decide to apply archery perks on athletics/riding skill trees despite clearly specialising on throwing/crossbow. Or even worse, choose the shield bash perk. When have we ever seen an AI use shield bash/kick? lol? What's up with that? (I know perks don't work yet, but still it's aggravating to see)

This is exacerbated by quests like a Lord needs a tutor. The dude I had was level 19 with a hard cap on 2 combat skills and soft cap on the others. Blacksmith wasn't really leveling much either due to the level 1 attribute and 0 focus. The only thing going up seems to be stewardship and that's slow to say the least. This quest and the whole companion thing needs to be revamped.

I personally don't see a reason why we cannot spec our companions even if it's limited. If the developers insist on forcing bad perk selections on me, then at least let me choose some focus. Or better yet, just lower their overall levels so I have a chance to correct any terrible presets they already have. I'd rather level the companions myself than have ready-made ones that are useless.

Side Note: Let me reload my crossbow on a horse already without having to rely on a mod.
 

Hodor NOT

Recruit
The complaint about companions not leveling was due to them coming at high levels with skills close to soft/hard caps. This was supposedly dealt with by reducing the overall number of skills that they had rather than decreasing the individual skill level. Now we have companions that are still difficult to level unless you're choosing to level their 0 level skills that are also less versatile.
+1
This is so true. I have playthroughs in which I cannot even find a companion that has any skill in medicine or engineering. The fix was not thought through.
 

hruza

Knight at Arms
The complaint about companions not leveling was due to them coming at high levels with skills close to soft/hard caps. This was supposedly dealt with by reducing the overall number of skills that they had rather than decreasing the individual skill level. Now we have companions that are still difficult to level unless you're choosing to level their 0 level skills that are also less versatile. Not to mention, you'll get companions who decide to apply archery perks on athletics/riding skill trees despite clearly specialising on throwing/crossbow. Or even worse, choose the shield bash perk. When have we ever seen an AI use shield bash/kick? lol? What's up with that? (I know perks don't work yet, but still it's aggravating to see)

Companions level the same way the player does. As for perks they select, some fine tuning to perhaps match them better with their focus would be in place but I am fine with them selecting perks that I might not have chosen. They are supposed to have mind of their own. And when I want leveling my companion in the entirely new skill and perk it the way I want, I am fine with him not been as proficient in it as somebody who already spend 20-30 years practicing it.

I agree that leveling needs some fine tuning, as some skills are much harder and slower to level then others, may be even overall speed of leveling needs some adjustments, but I don't think it's companion specific.

I personally don't see a reason why we cannot spec our companions even if it's limited.

Because it makes no sense? Companions are independent NPCs that come with their own past. They did not spawn out of the void. Their skills and perks reflect that.

If the developers insist on forcing bad perk selections on me, then at least let me choose some focus. Or better yet, just lower their overall levels so I have a chance to correct any terrible presets they already have. I'd rather level the companions myself than have ready-made ones that are useless.

Given how slowly some skills level, especially on NPCs (I am talking about combat skills in particular), that's terrible idea. I rather prefer current system where you choose companion because he is skilled in skills you want and then just fine tune him the way you want. It's not too difficult to level your companion 3-4 levels using skills that are not capped yet and put 3-4 focus points and 1 skill point in to places you want.
 

Woopzilla

Knight
WBNWM&BWF&SVC
I definitely would like lower leveled companions. We had these in Warband with companions like Klethi, Deshavi and Ymira as examples.

The lowest you can find are usually level 10, but sometimes they have bizarre allocations of focus points (e.g. in leadership, which is a waste since companions can't level this).

It produces awkward situations where a you give a companion a two-handed weapon despite them being proficient at one-handed and polarms, since they usually can level more from using that skill than what they are actually good at. I don't like this counter-intuitive meta-gaming to level heroes up and I personally wouldn't mind seeing the removal of hard-caps and the modifier lowering to a minimum of x0.200 instead of x0.000 until a more elegant solution can be created.
 

kopus

Recruit
M&B
Companions level the same way the player does. As for perks they select, some fine tuning to perhaps match them better with their focus would be in place but I am fine with them selecting perks that I might not have chosen. They are supposed to have mind of their own. And when I want leveling my companion in the entirely new skill and perk it the way I want, I am fine with him not been as proficient in it as somebody who already spend 20-30 years practicing it.

I agree that leveling needs some fine tuning, as some skills are much harder and slower to level then others, may be even overall speed of leveling needs some adjustments, but I don't think it's companion specific.

Because it makes no sense? Companions are independent NPCs that come with their own past. They did not spawn out of the void. Their skills and perks reflect that.

Given how slowly some skills level, especially on NPCs (I am talking about combat skills in particular), that's terrible idea. I rather prefer current system where you choose companion because he is skilled in skills you want and then just fine tune him the way you want. It's not too difficult to level your companion 3-4 levels using skills that are not capped yet and put 3-4 focus points and 1 skill point in to places you want.


I think I'll have to disagree with just about everything you've stated. I've never questioned whether or not the companions level the same way we do, so I'm not sure where you're pulling that from. It's a matter of how they pre-select attributes and perks that clearly do not mesh. If you're going to have +2 arrows on athletics, why would you choose +2 throwing weapons on riding? Some may even do this while having 90 on bow and 0 on throwing. This happens a lot with the AIs. So no, not "perhaps", but they must rework this random generated companions' system. Unless these NPCs have been dropped as a baby, their "past" should not warrant such life choices. THAT doesn't make sense.

The leveling speed needs to be increased a little with hard-caps eased off etc... but that's another topic for another thread. I don't see your point about how lower the level of companions is a terrible idea, considering their current system with perks and attributes being the focus of leveling. Not everyone wants to hire overpowered companions to breeze their way through the map. If I'm going to be a thirty y/o character at level 1, the companions that I grow with shouldn't be 10x stronger from the start. It ruins the roleplaying experience. A happy medium could be to have both. They should generate both higher level and lower level ones so I can choose my path.

What's truly terrible is to have high leveled NPCs that are basically glorified mob units you have very little control over. Prior to hiring your companion, the only knowledge you know of is their skill level. Without knowing their attributes, perks etc... it's difficult to make truly informed choices before hiring them. Unless you want every player to constantly hire and dismiss companions, your ideas sound ridiculous. Leveling side skills for companions is pretty much a given, but there are differences in efficiencies due to attributes after all.
 

drallim33

Sergeant
Companions will be very hard to level no matter what their starting skills are, because of how the skill system works. They use the same system as the player but the player kills 50 enemies in one battle, while a companion is the same as any regular troop, except with worse skills and worse equipment. So they gain combat skills at an extremely low rate. It is impossible for them to gain some skills like leadership, which means no training perks. They do not seem to gain XP in combat skills while in auto-resolve battles, only tactics and medicine. Maybe they gain a bit but it's tiny. I had a companion with very low starting skill in throwing but lots of focus points and high cap. So I gave them three racks of javelins and their own party but they barely levelled throwing skill at all.

So the only way to level their combat skills would be some degenerate and extremely grindy process of bringing them into your party and letting them kill looters for hours or something.

Warband's skill system was so much better, just get XP, and assign some points and it's done. And you could actually find (and afford) good armour to give to companions.
 

Because

Sergeant
If nothing else there should be a wider mix of companion levels so that you can hire fresh recruits to level up as you see fit (albeit painfully slowly with how hard it is for them to get XP) or experienced commanders to fill specific roles then it would fit all peoples play styles.
 

hruza

Knight at Arms
I think I'll have to disagree with just about everything you've stated. I've never questioned whether or not the companions level the same way we do, so I'm not sure where you're pulling that from.

I newer said you have questioned it, I said companions use the same leveling system the players do.

It's a matter of how they pre-select attributes and perks that clearly do not mesh. If you're going to have +2 arrows on athletics, why would you choose +2 throwing weapons on riding? Some may even do this while having 90 on bow and 0 on throwing. This happens a lot with the AIs. So no, not "perhaps", but they must rework this random generated companions' system. Unless these NPCs have been dropped as a baby, their "past" should not warrant such life choices. THAT doesn't make sense.

No they don't need to rework it. As I said above, it's the same system player uses. All that's needed is some fine tuning of how perks are selected.

The leveling speed needs to be increased a little with hard-caps eased off etc... but that's another topic for another thread. I don't see your point about how lower the level of companions is a terrible idea, considering their current system with perks and attributes being the focus of leveling.

I said it in the original post, because some attributes level very slow on companions. That's why.

Not everyone wants to hire overpowered companions to breeze their way through the map.

They're not overpowered.

If I'm going to be a thirty y/o character at level 1, the companions that I grow with shouldn't be 10x stronger from the start. It ruins the roleplaying experience. A happy medium could be to have both.

You did not grow with them. Most of them are significantly older then you.

They should generate both higher level and lower level ones so I can choose my path.

They do. At last as of 1.4.0 patch. They added new companion backgrounds that are below level 10.

What's truly terrible is to have high leveled NPCs that are basically glorified mob units you have very little control over. Prior to hiring your companion, the only knowledge you know of is their skill level. Without knowing their attributes, perks etc... it's difficult to make truly informed choices before hiring them. Unless you want every player to constantly hire and dismiss companions, your ideas sound ridiculous.

What exactly is ridiculous about firing companion that you don't like?

Leveling side skills for companions is pretty much a given, but there are differences in efficiencies due to attributes after all.

And I said that leveling speed of some skills should be adjusted. That does not require reworking the whole system as you demand. However you also need to take in to consideration that player levels some skills much faster then companions do and devs need to adjust speed to match that of the player as a priority. Companions will probably never be able to level combat skills as fast as player and that's why having decent combat skills on companions from the start is a must. And that is why I think your idea about companions without levels and skills is terrible.
 
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