If there are some secret owners / investors of the company they probably have zero knowledge about game development. I seriously doubt that they would be able to design a video game / make decisions. So far there aren't any loot boxes or a battle royal modes, so I guess the theory is wrong anyway.
On the other hand there are multiplayer classes set up for e-sports and disabled functionality that hints at buying stuff in MP, i.e. microtransactions. Someone at some point thought this was a good idea - who would that be?
You don't have to know much about game development to make basic management decisions. A minor feature would take too long? Cut it, it's too expensive. You can wring value out of any project, whether it's building software or a house. If you need expertise, you hire someone with expertise to cut expenses for you at decision-making meetings. That's normal active ownership of a business.
On the other hand there are multiplayer classes set up for e-sports and disabled functionality that hints at buying stuff in MP, i.e. microtransactions. Someone at some point thought this was a good idea - who would that be?
You don't have to know much about game development to make basic management decisions. A minor feature would take too long? Cut it, it's too expensive. You can wring value out of any project, whether it's building software or a house. If you need expertise, you hire someone with expertise to cut expenses for you at decision-making meetings. That's normal active ownership of a business.
I think this is a little tin-foil hate Vader. Sure TW certainly have investors but I very much doubt they care or even know about the majority of the games mechanics or files. We have been told multiple times there will be no microtransactions; and nothing so far about the suggested implementation of cosmetics has given us evidence of this.
We can't know for certain but I don't think a shadowy hand is secretly destroying bannerlord for us.
More likely the classes were based on the NW DLC; which was hugely successful.
On the other hand there are multiplayer classes set up for e-sports and disabled functionality that hints at buying stuff in MP, i.e. microtransactions. Someone at some point thought this was a good idea - who would that be?
You don't have to know much about game development to make basic management decisions. A minor feature would take too long? Cut it, it's too expensive. You can wring value out of any project, whether it's building software or a house. If you need expertise, you hire someone with expertise to cut expenses for you at decision-making meetings. That's normal active ownership of a business.
I try to reply to topics over the weekend since during the week there is too much work to be done. Naturally, that is not always possible since private life matters can come up. Having said that, it's been two days - hardly a drastic delay. Especially considering that a proper reply to a complex topic can take quite a bit of time. If people choose to be destructive rather than constructive (harming the topic at hand), I would think that they do so out of other frustrations.
In any case, the OP is being read (like many other topics on the forums) and I personally find it informative, agree with parts and disagree with others. Nonetheless, I appreciate it and will take it into account.
I do think that this is a great list and I'm glad to see that it is being read. Ideally if this is brought up to the senior managers that make the major decisions.
I do feel that the community is vocal at times because it cares - that doesn't make many of the less civil responses right, but it is a reason.
There does appear to be a growing level of frustration that feedback is not being taken into account here, especially because the overwhelming majority (as per poll) agree that this is a very well made list of suggestions by the OP.
I feel that part of the frustration comes from a lack of understanding / certainty about community feedback. So I will try to shine some light on the processes. To begin with, we gain and process information from players in a variety of ways. The most straight forward ones are probably our dump-uploader and technical support section. Anything that comes in through these avenues has a very high probability to be investigated. Naturally, it isn't just blind activity either - we try to prioritize problems along the lines of prominence, so that anything that impacts many players is resolved as soon as possible. I think this is particularly evident during the first few months of the Early Access where many patches focused on stabilizing the game. I know there are posts that don't much care for bug fixes or performance improvements, but to me, it was and is the right call to make sure that as many people as possible are able to play the game that they purchased.
The next most apparent avenue is the beta branch, which allows for a closer collaboration between developers and the community - and has verifiably led to good feature adjustments (the most recent example that comes to mind for me is the pillaging feature). Patches in general are, of course, always an opportunity for constructive discussion and so are the releases of our priority statements (where I believe a fair few questions are answered when players post them). Less overt, but also important, are things like the closed (and open) tests that are conducted with members of the multiplayer community as well as our direct lines of discussion with community volunteers or, for instance, the closed testing and workshops we did with some of our modders ahead of the release of the modding tools.
....
We most assuredly do have a vast backlog of tasks, but, for me, providing a public "final feature list" while the game is still heavily in development seems like it would either be misleading or constrain our ability to make adjustments. The current method allows us to share some information while retaining the agility to reevaluate our priorities as content is shared and new issues and feedback come up.
At the end of the day, it is a compromise between competing interests. Obviously, I understand that players want to know more. Especially when they care about a product. I also think that there has been progress in that regard. At the beginning of EA we had neither statements, nor video updates. These were introduced over time. Which I think is fair, because it is important to find the right balance between sharing information and prematurely building expectations - and that is a learning process.
Battles *Singleplayer Armor Damage Model: Arrows do way too much damage to armor. Melee attacks do slightly too much. High quality armor provides barely any protection. This is unrealistic, makes expensive armor nearly pointless, makes higher tier units too weak, and leads to troop imbalance (overpowered archers) that causes shallow tactics ("sit archers on hill") and battles ending too quickly. *Combat AI obviously has many things that need fixing. Troops don't block or parry enough. Lance cavalry AI are far too inaccurate and will charge to the other side of the map to gain charging distance on an enemy who is behind them moving at the same speed. Ranged unit AI stops targeting cavalry outside of medium range (fixed in 1.5.9), but is also too accurate at hitting fast moving targets. All types of AI have an issue of focusing on enemies who are too far away, instead of nearby threats. Etc... *SP Troop Balance: Ranged cavalry and ranged infantry are way too strong (see armor). Melee cavalry charges aren't impactful enough. Melee infantry, especially spear users, are weak. *SP Weapon Balance: Throwing weapons don't do enough shield damage (fixed in 1.5.9).Player and the AI cannot brace polearms in singleplayer. Stab polearms are too weak, slash polearms are too strong. * Mounted melee combat from horseback with swords and spears feels very inconsistent and the animations poorly match the hit areas. * AI captains will charge wildly into battle with no self-preservation and die. What they should be doing is fighting if the fight comes to them, but otherwise staying just behind their men, not seeking out fights.
Armagan and his wife are great developers since they made the first M&B by themselves but that doesn't always translate to good managers too in a bigger team or that they can't make bad calls alone.
I think instead of secret soulless investors its more probable that they simply started too ambitious with bannerlord, got stuck in dev hell (even big studios fall into it sometimes) and then had to take a "strong" stance and cut corners/deny new indepth features to finish what was there already and make the game finally see the light of day.
Everything points towards dev hell, from the glassdoor reviews to they wanting to release the game in 2016 and delaying until 2020 to the many reworks of features we saw during development alone (we got what 3 or 4 passes on lighting alone? some 3 versions of the world map aswell, reworked/axed features everywhere and some like siege AI that don't properly work to this day still)
Armagan and his wife are great developers since they made the first M&B by themselves but that doesn't always translate to good managers too or that they can't make bad calls alone.
I think instead of secret soulless investors its more probable that they simply started too ambitious with bannerlord, got stuck in dev hell (even big studios fall into it sometimes) and then had to take a "strong" stance and cut corners/deny new indepth features to finish what was there already and make the game finally see the light of day.
Everything points towards dev hell, from the glassdoor reviews to they wanting to release the game in 2016 and delaying until 2020 to the many reworks of features we saw during development alone (we got what 3 or 4 passes on lighting alone? some 3 versions of the world map aswell, reworked/axed features everywhere and some like siege AI that don't properly work to this day still)
Oh absolutely. I have a strong feeling they came up with all sorts of insanely complex ideas at one point and eventually someone came along and said - 'no; just finish the game'.
Probably regrettable - but at the same time it's also probably the only reason we have anything to play before 2030.
Oh absolutely. I have a strong feeling they came up with all sorts of insanely complex ideas at one point and eventually someone came along and said - 'no; just finish the game'.
Probably regrettable - but at the same time it's also probably the only reason we have anything to play before 2030.
I find it really strange to say that TW started on a bad foot.
A lot of things may happen during any development and decisions need to be taken during this phase.
I already see people coming with the argument "hey I'm myself an overskilled programming engineer and if it was me blablabla" but guess what, it is not about you.
TW decided to create a new game, in the continuity of warband series. With new mechanics and new features.
You don't like the way the game is being developped? Then maybe you have to take a break and come back when it is fully released.
Or maybe accept that Bannerlord will never reach your expectations, resulting in far less frustration and negativity...
I find it really strange to say that TW started on a bad foot.
A lot of things may happen during any development and decisions need to be taken during this phase.
I already see people coming with the argument "hey I'm myself an overskilled programming engineer and if it was me blablabla" but guess what, it is not about you.
TW decided to create a new game, in the continuity of warband series. With new mechanics and new features.
You don't like the way the game is being developped? Then maybe you have to take a break and come back when it is fully released.
Or maybe accept that Bannerlord will never reach your expectations, resulting in far less frustration and negativity...
I wouldn't say I agree with Nalgasucia507; but he isn't exactly wrong either. The game (certainly at release) was much less finished then the majority hoped for. It's a shame as I actually think the SP is starting to come together (the MP is still incredibly barebones) - however a lot of the damage has been done.
I still have high hopes for the game; but I think there is always going to be bad blood in the community when thinking back to this time.
Rome 2 is a perfect analogy. That game was an absolute disaster on launch - far worse then Bannerlord was or is. And that was also highly anticipated for many years. Now that game has really pulled together and has even gone from overwhelming negative reviews to positive on steam. There is nothing stopping bannerlord doing the same (except from very positive - to overwhelming like warband) - but people will always reflect badly on this stage of development. And ther are still serious kinks to be worked out (like this whole modding issue).
You don't like the way the game is being developped? Then maybe you have to take a break and come back when it is fully released.
Or maybe accept that Bannerlord will never reach your expectations, resulting in far less frustration and negativity...
I already did bud, thank you for your advice. My mindset is 0 expectations, 0 disappointment. I have stopped being negative, started being and speaking reality, based on past experience.
Rome 2 is a perfect analogy. That game was an absolute disaster on launch - far worse then Bannerlord was or is. And that was also highly anticipated for many years. Now that game has really pulled together and has even gone from overwhelming negative reviews to positive on steam. There is nothing stopping bannerlord doing the same (except from very positive - to overwhelming like warband) - but people will always reflect badly on this stage of development. And ther are still serious kinks to be worked out (like this whole modding issue).
I find it really strange to say that TW started on a bad foot.
A lot of things may happen during any development and decisions need to be taken during this phase.
I already see people coming with the argument "hey I'm myself an overskilled programming engineer and if it was me blablabla" but guess what, it is not about you.
Yes, actually people with relevant experience are qualified to comment and you better listen. instead of sticking fingers in your ears because you can't handle people criticizing things for some strange reason. Those people are far more on-topic than your uncritical white-knighting that weirdly accuses professionals of egocentrism of all things.
TW decided to create a new game, in the continuity of warband series. With new mechanics and new features.
You don't like the way the game is being developped? Then maybe you have to take a break and come back when it is fully released.
Or maybe accept that Bannerlord will never reach your expectations, resulting in far less frustration and negativity...
No one asked you for advice. It's actually you that has a problem with criticism of this game and keep reminding us how you can't handle it.
Take your own advice and take a break or accept that people are allowed to criticize games, resulting in far less frustration and negativity about fellow human beings.
I don't think they'll answer. They are going throu "development hell" (which seems to be every day lol) to release at the end a buggy patch on anniversary. We will all say thanks! and good job! but will be the same ****ty feeling after every patch, too little and buggy af. But it is good to at least keep them honest. He did say he planned to give a response.
Yes, actually people with relevant experience are qualified to comment and you better listen. instead of sticking fingers in your ears because you can't handle people criticizing things for some strange reason. Those people are far more on-topic than your uncritical white-knighting that weirdly accuses professionals of egocentrism of all things.
No one asked you for advice. It's actually you that has a problem with criticism of this game and keep reminding us how you can't handle it.
Take your own advice and take a break or accept that people are allowed to criticize games, resulting in far less frustration and negativity about fellow human beings.
I only valuate constructive and factual criticism @MadVader
For example this OP (except for the points I already listed) and the letter related to current lack of modability (while still in EA).
Because this is the only way to go further in any project involving several persons with diverging opinions. Negativity, insult, agressivity, sarcasm, assumption are just a waste of time and will certainly not improve anything.
But you are apparently the qualified person for constructive "on-topic" feedback just like you did here. (funny though)
Really impressive for a "elite community" member like you, cumulating 6500 messages since 2010.
When we see the trend of you recent posts, you better take into account my "advice" as well.
A lot of things may happen during any development and decisions need to be taken during this phase.
I already see people coming with the argument "hey I'm myself an overskilled programming engineer and if it was me blablabla" but guess what, it is not about you.
TW decided to create a new game, in the continuity of warband series. With new mechanics and new features.
You don't like the way the game is being developped? Then maybe you have to take a break and come back when it is fully released.
Or maybe accept that Bannerlord will never reach your expectations, resulting in far less frustration and negativity...
I only valuate constructive and factual criticism @MadVader
For example this OP (except for the points I already listed) and the letter related to current lack of modability (while still in EA).
Because this is the only way to go further in any project involving several persons with diverging opinions. Negativity, insult, agressivity, sarcasm, assumption are just a waste of time and will certainly not improve anything.
But you are apparently the qualified person for constructive "on-topic" feedback just like you did here. (funny though)
Really impressive for a "elite community" member like you, cumulating 6500 messages since 2010.
When we see the trend of you recent posts, you better take into account my "advice" as well.
A lot of things may happen during any development and decisions need to be taken during this phase.
I already see people coming with the argument "hey I'm myself an overskilled programming engineer and if it was me blablabla" but guess what, it is not about you.
TW decided to create a new game, in the continuity of warband series. With new mechanics and new features.
You don't like the way the game is being developped? Then maybe you have to take a break and come back when it is fully released.
Or maybe accept that Bannerlord will never reach your expectations, resulting in far less frustration and negativity...
I don't think they'll answer. They are going throu "development hell" (which seems to be every day lol) to release at the end a buggy patch on anniversary. We will all say thanks! and good job! but will be the same ****ty feeling after every patch, too little and buggy af. But it is good to at least keep them honest. He did say he planned to give a response.
If this thread manages to fall off the front page of the forum then I think we can kiss the chance of a full response goodbye. Honestly I'm not really sure what else there is to say anyways since "No because Vision(TM)" is a pretty broadly-covered answer, if an aggravating one.
If this thread manages to fall off the front page of the forum then I think we can kiss the chance of a full response goodbye. Honestly I'm not really sure what else there is to say anyways since "No because Vision(TM)" is a pretty broadly-covered answer, if an aggravating one.
While I like your enthusiasm and optimism I find it funny that you think TW will ever give a full response. The only response we'll ever get is the one that Duh gave many pages ago.
I don't think they'll answer. They are going throu "development hell" (which seems to be every day lol) to release at the end a buggy patch on anniversary. We will all say thanks! and good job! but will be the same ****ty feeling after every patch, too little and buggy af. But it is good to at least keep them honest. He did say he planned to give a response.
Just a quick reminder that @Duh_TaleWorlds response (if it comes) isn't necessarily the view of the company but his personal opinion. And he'll be writing it in his free time on the weekends and not as a part of his job.
I think it's awesome that some devs spend their free time discussing the game with us. What's not so awesome is that no official communication takes place. I'd like to know what Armagan says about the state of the game and the feedback he got from the community over the last 12 months.
While I like your enthusiasm and optimism I find it funny that you think TW will ever give a full response. The only response we'll ever get is the one that Duh gave many pages ago.
No, @Duh_TaleWorlds will follow through, even if the response won't cover everything or his replies may be vague, either because TW doesn't know what to do or they don't want to say yet. It would be far better than nothing.
(Now don't make me look a liar, Duh.)
Agreed with the previous poster that Armagan is missing in action. A short statement on plans and dates would be nice, but it's more likely he would rather talk about the future of Bannerlord in some obscure interview in Turkish.
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