Community Feedback-based EARLY ACCESS ROADMAP - ready for you, Taleworlds!

Does this roadmap represent your basic wants for Bannerlord?

  • Yes

    Votes: 296 86.8%
  • No

    Votes: 45 13.2%

  • Total voters
    341

Users who are viewing this thread

Spinozart1

Squire
Some people don't like the new battle terrain system cause it'll be tied to Calradia's map and this will give modders much more work in total conversions since they'll have to remake all battle maps.

Personally i really like the premise of the new system and can't wait to try it but i get why some people are worried about it.
Except if the devs leave the option for modders to choose between the battle terrain or generated maps...
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Except if the devs leave the option for modders to choose between the battle terrain or generated maps...
yeah, people already asked the devs if this will be possible a few times but got no response, guess we'll have to wait and see
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Some people don't like the new battle terrain system cause it'll be tied to Calradia's map and this will give modders much more work in total conversions since they'll have to remake all battle maps.

Personally i really like the premise of the new system and can't wait to try it but i get why some people are worried about it.
Well each area corresponds to a map. So presumably all a modder needs to do is assign the same map to multiple regions (or just copy the map). I can't imagine it is a difficult thing to work around.

Regardless seems like an excellent new feature.... certainly it has to be higher up the agenda then the freaking books mechanic....
 

MadVader

Duke
M&BWB
Regardless seems like an excellent new feature.... certainly it has to be higher up the agenda then the freaking books mechanic....
That's the problem, in the time it will take them to make all the new maps, they can introduce literally 1000 small features like books. The maps are a nice idea, but fail the cost-benefit analysis spectacularly.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
That's the problem, in the time it will take them to make all the new maps, they can introduce literally 1000 small features like books. The maps are a nice idea, but fail the cost-benefit analysis spectacularly.
The people who make maps are not the same people who make features though. The skills aren't transferable. You could argue TW should hire more developers and less scene designers - but that's not really the point.
 

Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
Except if the devs leave the option for modders to choose between the battle terrain or generated maps...
The game never had and very likely won't have automated scene generation. The intention for the battle terrain system is to be moddable.

That's the problem, in the time it will take them to make all the new maps, they can introduce literally 1000 small features like books.
You know better than to argue that a scene artist would introduce a book feature.
 

TheShermanator

Sergeant
That's the problem, in the time it will take them to make all the new maps, they can introduce literally 1000 small features like books. The maps are a nice idea, but fail the cost-benefit analysis spectacularly.
Yes, this.
The game never had and very likely won't have automated scene generation. The intention for the battle terrain system is to be moddable.


You know better than to argue that a scene artist would introduce a book feature.
This argument (that the battle terrain system cost/benefit is a non-sequitur vis-a-vis little visual art features like books) implies a static resource allocation within the TW dev team. And, in any case, how the sausage is made is irrelevant to us as end consumers (beyond idle speculation as entertainment). If TW (throughout it's allocation of labor across different teams or however it chooses to manage it's total dev time) spends X total time on a feature with Y value but could have instead spent X total time on 10 features with a total of 5Y value, then the end consumer loses out vs the counter-factual.

And of course, the team leading the effort on the battle terrain system could be working on any number of different priorities even if that same team wouldn't produce book features.

And I do agree (IMHO of course) that the battle terrain system sounds like a poor cost/benefit decision. While there are still some limitations to the battle system (reinforcement system, performance issues, armor balance, etc.), battles are basically good in the current state of the game. What the game needs most urgently are other late game features (e.g. rebellions, peerage, etc. but a lot more stuff like that. Better fief management mechanics and cost/rewards would be awesome, for example.)
 

MadVader

Duke
M&BWB
The people who make maps are not the same people who make features though. The skills aren't transferable. You could argue TW should hire more developers and less scene designers - but that's not really the point.
You know better than to argue that a scene artist would introduce a book feature.
Sure if, sceners have no work left, but I assume they do - all the unique settlement locations need to be completed if I understand correctly and there's always regular "maintenance" work on existing scenes - to remove glitches, optimize performance and other general improvements.
If I also understand correctly, some of the siege problems need scene corrections too.

In any case, even if the sceners are completely unemployed, the new battle maps feature are the new critical path in the project plan that pushes the release date on its own, not a good thing when you are already late.
 

Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
This argument (that the battle terrain system cost/benefit is a non-sequitur vis-a-vis little visual art features like books) implies a static resource allocation within the TW dev team.
The implication I am going for is that we are not using the vast majority of artists for coding (technical artists are a different matter ofc.).
And, in any case, how the sausage is made is irrelevant to us as end consumers (beyond idle speculation as entertainment).
Then why are you joining a discussion about how the wurst is made? :iamamoron:
(e.g. rebellions, peerage, etc. but a lot more stuff like that. Better fief management mechanics and cost/rewards would be awesome, for example.)
None of these require scene artists.

In any case, even if the sceners are completely unemployed, the new battle maps feature are the new critical path in the project plan that pushes the release date on its own, not a good thing when you are already late.
That's inaccurate, but I don't think I can go into detail on release timeline decisions.
 

TheShermanator

Sergeant
The implication I am going for is that we are not using the vast majority of artists for coding (technical artists are a different matter ofc.).

Then why are you joining a discussion about how the wurst is made? :iamamoron:

None of these require scene artists.


That's inaccurate, but I don't think I can go into detail on release timeline decisions.
I do appreciate the conversation, sincerely, but I think you may have missed my core point. I'd invite you to re-read as needed. In summary: We don't have to care how many people are on what team (not-withstanding some of the speculative truthers on this forum :smile: ) But if, in total, TW spends a lot of time adding a feature to an aspect of the game that is already pretty much working at the same time that other features are still missing, the end consumumer ends up worse off vs. the counterfactual. How TW manages the resource allocation towards the goal of optimizing end user experience doesn't have to be relevant to the end user. But the outcome (vs. counter-factual) is of course relevant to the end user. Make sense?
 

TheShermanator

Sergeant
I think you missed mine. I like to nitpick Madvader and he likes to nitpick me.
Lol. Yes. To be honest, it is pretty entertaining to watch your conversation, so I can't complain too much. :smile: *coagh coagh* "truthers" *coagh coagh".

I would humbly point out, though, that you appear to be sidestepping my point vs. answering it. Not that you are obliged answer everything. Just saying.
 

MadVader

Duke
M&BWB
That's inaccurate, but I don't think I can go into detail on release timeline decisions.
That's messed up! If the critical path is elsewhere, then there's some secret stuff you are working on that's even more spectacularly wasteful time-consuming. Something like 10000 books or 1000 companions or 100 MP skins. :smile:
I mean even for the battle maps it was said they won't be all finished by the release, but will be completed in post-release patches. If they are not the most critical, I don't know what is.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
That's inaccurate, but I don't think I can go into detail on release timeline decisions.
giphy.gif
 

Spinozart1

Squire
The game never had and very likely won't have automated scene generation. The intention for the battle terrain system is to be moddable.
Okay good to know.
That's messed up! If the critical path is elsewhere, then there's some secret stuff you are working on that's even more spectacularly wasteful time-consuming. Something like 10000 books or 1000 companions or 100 MP skins. :smile:
I mean even for the battle maps it was said they won't be all finished by the release, but will be completed in post-release patches. If they are not the most critical, I don't know what is.
Expect something big!
 
A bit related to this, but mainly to modders - will the terrains ever be added to the remaining maps, other than the below(which already have terrain):

empire_village_003 khuzait_castle_002 sturgia_town_b battle_terrain_v empire_castle_keep_a_l3_interior empire_house_c_tavern_a empire_dungeon_a arena_empire_a Main_map

If I'm in the loop, I understand this is to save space; however, I wouldn't be able to use those lacking a terrain for a mod?

@Duh_TaleWorlds
 
Last edited:

five bucks

Squire
@AxiosXiphos I have no issues with the battle terrain system and it's a feature I like. I'm definitely not saying they should stop working on it now, they've started, may as well finish.

But I am using it as one of multiple examples of an ongoing trend where TW is incapable of even committing to features that people expected when they bought the game, but they come up with new features that almost nobody expected or asked for, and are able to commit to those.

Criminal empire mechanics are literally still advertised on the Steam store page, but TW can't officially commit to us that they are going to work on them. But they are able to officially commit to us that they will work on sally-out missions, a party template system, etc.

Leaving aside the scene design work, the terrain battle system almost certainly required some code work. And that effort could have been used on implementing multiple lower effort features that people expected when they bought the game. Or a single feature of similar size, like the criminal workshops.

I have no problem if TW wants to work on whatever cool feature they come up with off the top of their heads, and will be very grateful, but if it means not delivering what people actually paid for, they should not do that.

Keep in mind, category 1 and category 2 are of equal priority. This thread (and the 260+ votes supporting it) is not to tell Taleworlds how to do their job, it's telling them to just do their job. To use another analogy here, it's like going to a restaurant, paying for a club sandwich, and getting delivered a burger.
You know better than to argue that a scene artist would introduce a book feature.
@Duh_TaleWorlds So do you mean there's no code involved in the battle terrain system at all and everything with the feature is done by the scene artists?
 
Top Bottom