Community Feedback-based EARLY ACCESS ROADMAP - ready for you, Taleworlds!

Does this roadmap represent your basic wants for Bannerlord?

  • Yes

    Votes: 257 86.8%
  • No

    Votes: 39 13.2%

  • Total voters
    296

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Lesbosisles

Knight
The assault already includes the streets and will have the enemy retreat to the lord's hall - once the lord's hall fight is in.
Found that post just now (haven't seen it before), and saw this in particular. Hope, my respond won't be considered as a necroposting :grin:

Dear Duh, if you will see this, I would like to specify something: you mentioned that sieges in its current state include streets. Well, technically, they do. By "technically" I mean that siege map are indeed include the whole city/castle map, not only the walls like in WB (1st stage).

Still, the AI cannot understand that enemy has already taken the walls. They don't know that the walls/gates are lost and in is time to retreat further into the city. The fresh spawned AI soldiers will still try retaking the walls when there's absolutely no chance for it (i.e. too many enemy soldiers are on the wall, they simply slaughter the defender on stairs). Moreover, if you manage to step on the town's streets as an attacker - the enemy soldiers on the street will ignore you in their haste retake the wall. The ones who stand in front of the gates will also ignore you - they will try to hit you if you get too close to them, but they won't chase you.

I think, you've got my point from the examples mentioned above. So, my question is: are there any plans to "teach" the defenders AI to retreat deeper into the city if the walls and gates are lost and continue their fight there?

P.S. I would've also added some range troops spawned on the city rooftops or any other vantage points for ambushes, but I'm not sure if this is possible.
 

Zoonanay

Knight
Maybe it's time for some of ya'll to come to terms it's not going to be a perfect game like ya'll wants, that it will take the modders to make it such. As stated above it was mods like VC and others that made Warband the game that many of us love and still play. TW is just giving them the framework to work on.

That's a terrible attitude to have. Modders enhance game experience, not fundamentally create it. Sure, Warband is my favourite game of all time because of mods, but I still would've played the hell out of it with just Native. The mods just made it that much better.

One of TW's originally stated goals was to make it so Bannerlord can be enjoyed with or without mods, they're currently failing to do this. Keeping a company to their word isn't crying or unreasonable, it's what they stated, it's what should be expected. Simple.
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
You shouldn't rely on modders to complete your game... That's a terrible and lazy mindset!

Edit: Kingdom Come Deliverance is on a whole other level compared to Bannerlord (Was funnily also announced after Bannerlord but released before), I've heard it was buggy at the start but I waited until the Royal Edition to buy and play it and you could feel it was a labour of love and an outright well made game.

Not even going to comment on Red Dead Redemption

I can't wait for the broken AI to deal with with Lord's hall fight.
Don't worry, you're welcome to make a suggestion on how to improve it, which they might implement in the future but for now isn't planning to do :smile:
 
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Dreed89

Sergeant at Arms
Found that post just now (haven't seen it before), and saw this in particular. Hope, my respond won't be considered as a necroposting :grin:

Dear Duh, if you will see this, I would like to specify something: you mentioned that sieges in its current state include streets. Well, technically, they do. By "technically" I mean that siege map are indeed include the whole city/castle map, not only the walls like in WB (1st stage).

Still, the AI cannot understand that enemy has already taken the walls. They don't know that the walls/gates are lost and in is time to retreat further into the city. The fresh spawned AI soldiers will still try retaking the walls when there's absolutely no chance for it (i.e. too many enemy soldiers are on the wall, they simply slaughter the defender on stairs). Moreover, if you manage to step on the town's streets as an attacker - the enemy soldiers on the street will ignore you in their haste retake the wall. The ones who stand in front of the gates will also ignore you - they will try to hit you if you get too close to them, but they won't chase you.

I think, you've got my point from the examples mentioned above. So, my question is: are there any plans to "teach" the defenders AI to retreat deeper into the city if the walls and gates are lost and continue their fight there?

P.S. I would've also added some range troops spawned on the city rooftops or any other vantage points for ambushes, but I'm not sure if this is possible.
Good explanation. Developers always seem to answer questions their own way avoiding what the poster actually asked.

I mean, I don't think someone, by asking the question "will the fight include streets?" really means "will there be streets on the castle scene?". Yes, the streets indeed exist, but units rush to walls like a single blob of flesh where in fact they should position themselves on new firing spots, form lines on narrow corridors, etc.

The same dull thing happened on another thread where a poster asked something like "why is 'I have a quick question' dialogue option still empty after all this time?" and they got the response "I have a quick question' and 'I have something to discuss' options are functionally very similar, so one can be removed." The poster in fact queried why there were so many limited dialogue options.

Reading these makes me lose hope on this game even more.
 

five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
So, my question is: are there any plans to "teach" the defenders AI to retreat deeper into the city if the walls and gates are lost and continue their fight there?
If it's too much work to make the AI intelligently hold chokepoints in the city - the AI is already difficult for Taleworlds as it is - they can just copy what Warband did. Once wall defenders are all dead or routed, you get an intermission popup "You've breached the walls, but the stubborn defenders continue to resist you in the streets! You'll have to deal with them before you can attack the keep at the heart of the town", and then you move to a street scene where both attackers and defenders spawn in at preset locations.
 
If it's too much work to make the AI intelligently hold chokepoints in the city - the AI is already difficult for Taleworlds as it is - they can just copy what Warband did. Once wall defenders are all dead or routed, you get an intermission popup "You've breached the walls, but the stubborn defenders continue to resist you in the streets! You'll have to deal with them before you can attack the keep at the heart of the town", and then you move to a street scene where both attackers and defenders spawn in at preset locations.
They probably want a seamless transition even if they can't pull it off at the moment.
Frankly, making the AI gradually retreat and hold intermediate positions is not rocket science and doesn't require advanced coding.
But then it might clash with the "half-assed" design philosophy of the rest of the game.
 
They probably want a seamless transition even if they can't pull it off at the moment.
Frankly, making the AI gradually retreat and hold intermediate positions is not rocket science and doesn't require advanced coding.
But then it might clash with the "half-assed" design philosophy of the rest of the game.

Now we can't have that can we.
 

five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
Added the things from 1.6 that fix community complaints. While this patch was somewhat light on content, it definitely made major improvements for modders/performance that were seriously needed.

* Forgot to mention Belligerent Drunks in section 1, that's another thing which Warband had but Bannerlord doesn't.
* Vassals vote based on their relations (presumably, relations with the candidates for the vote) now.
* Orders system which made Smithing more fun.
* Upgrading troops in large quantities was a very common complaint which I'd forgotten to put on the list. TW have fixed it, so may as well retroactively put it on there to give them credit and track the progress they're making.
* More dialogue fixes.
* "Conquest of City" quest helps with the issue of the mid to late-game lacking quests.
* Crowns were added for rulers.
* Many uses of "internal" were removed as per community request, making the game's code significantly more accessible for modders.
* Performance received major improvements.

If there's anything I've missed, please let me know.

Has anyone actually had the "Noble Revolt" quest trigger yet? I feel like it may possibly solve some of the issues mentioned here, but I haven't seen it yet.
 

Noschkov

Sergeant at Arms
I think the two things that you didn't mention are the new cultural traits and the ironman mode(another thing from Warband thet was missing)^^
 

five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
I think the two things that you didn't mention are the new cultural traits and the ironman mode(another thing from Warband thet was missing)^^
Thanks. I'd forgotten Ironman mode was in Warband, since it wasn't called that there. But thank you for mentioning it, and I will add it.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
I think the two things that you didn't mention are the new cultural traits and the ironman mode(another thing from Warband thet was missing)^^
The addition of ironman mode was awesome to me just wish they would also enable player death in battle aswell when they eventually enable death in ai x ai battles to up the stakes of losing a fight without surrendering + even more combined with ironman :grin:
 

Noschkov

Sergeant at Arms
* Ability to promote companions to lords when you are a faction ruler.
This should be changed to WIP. I think Duh said some days ago tht this is a thing they are working on if I remember it right.
* Defenders making a stand in the streets after winning the wall fight of a town siege.
Same here. It was stated that defenders fight in the street on their way back to the lords hall when this fights are implemented. A kind of fighting retreat or something.
Autoresolve: Players don't want to use it for its intended purpose (skipping easy, boring battles) because they risk losing troops they wouldn't normally. High tier troops should do better in autoresolve, troop type needs better balancing, and result calculation should be less random.
This is included in their plans for Singleplayer and Duh said they are working on it. He said it is continuous work in progress last Friday.
making an insanely valuable weapon is too easy,
I have not tested it myself but from comments of other users this seemed to be mostly fixed in 1.6.(could be wrong here)
* Spawn locations of reinforcements can be very imbalanced, causing the player to lose in situations they would have otherwise won.
This should be changed with the new battle terrain system because then we basicly set our own spawn locations depending on where at the overworld map we are.

So, I think this should be all(yes i am bored at the moment) :grin:
 
This was such a small fun thing in Warband which brought much joy to me and many other peoples' lives.

Why was it discontinued in Bannerlord?

I just thought about that in my latest game. While the taverns are really holding over thrice the NPC's then they did half a year ago, the life of the party is still missing. The drunk.
 

CrazyElf

Veteran
10 people in the MP sub-forum complained that spears were OP and they nerfed spears. That was a year ago. Now spears don't work for s*** and they especially don't work if you use shieldwall or pike square because of collision issues.

I agree this is a big problem. I don't know why this has not been resolved - it is one of the simpler things to fix by changing the XML. Spears right now are not competitive with swords and other weapons.

Spears were historically the dominant weapon, which is why I find this odd.

Seeing that the MP is split now fro the single player, I think the solution is to give spears the proper place they deserve at least in single player.

Another question is why those 10 were given so much weight over the rest of us.



Maybe it's time for some of ya'll to come to terms it's not going to be a perfect game like ya'll wants, that it will take the modders to make it such. As stated above it was mods like VC and others that made Warband the game that many of us love and still play. TW is just giving them the framework to work on.


Unfortunately, it is not that simple, as the open letter indicates.


You can tell that there is growing frustration in that thread.

The game is not as "mod friendly" as it needs to be for the modding community to take over.


Edit: One question I have is how much the 1.6 patch has addressed these issues.
 
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Noschkov

Sergeant at Arms
Unfortunately, it is not that simple, as the open letter indicates.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...nd-the-total-conversion-mod-community.440886/
You can tell that there is growing frustration in that thread.

The game is not as "mod friendly" as it needs to be for the modding community to take over.


Edit: One question I have is how much the 1.6 patch has addressed these issues.
I think the 1.6 patch was a nice first step but TW has already announced a ton for other changes for modders that will come with the next updates. I think if we want to know how good it will be for modding we should wait another 3 patches or so. They won't be able to integrate all the things they want to give to modders but I think when we get the things announced in the update from Dejan where he explained the internal keyword changes we will have a good idea of what will be possible and what not.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
Pardon the delay: I just got back from a 1-week zucc.
I agree this is a big problem. I don't know why this has not been resolved - it is one of the simpler things to fix by changing the XML. Spears right now are not competitive with swords and other weapons.
They haven't changed it because they don't want to. In the past one dev implied that they consider spears to be anti-cav-only weapons, but were open to the possibility of it being made useful in melee - a concept he considered novel. Further back, a dev admitted to nerfing the AI for infantry (specifically, making it "silly") because it wasn't "fun" for head-on cavalry charges into massed spearmen to get slaughtered. In response to the corresponding OP'ness of cav, devs apparently nerfed cav AI too.

People on this forum have been complaining about spears for years and have been completely ignored, while spears have been actually nerfed more as time has gone on.

Some people - especially from the MP side of the fanbase - said that they considered it unfair for more expensive/flashy weapons like greatswords to be beatable by anyone carrying a lowly spear.
Another question is why those 10 were given so much weight over the rest of us.
It's unclear. Might be because they think they're going to turn MB2 into an esport (LOL: they won't). There are some indications that that's what they're actually striving for, which really doesn't seem to be panning out for them.

Another possibility is that different devs working on different modules are getting different feedback - so while the SP-focused devs are too overloaded to listen to hundreds of fans who want better spears, the MP-focused devs can make sweeping changes to the game for like a dozen fans who wanted worse spears. If different modules with different fanbases are using the same code, a tweak on one can seriously affect balance on all the others.

I'm speculating somewhat because we get very limited and vague communication from TW about anything - that's honestly most of the problem.
Edit: One question I have is how much the 1.6 patch has addressed these issues.
Here's a roundup thread I wrote covering the entire saga. TL;DR version is that the new patch did significantly cut back on internal access modifiers and they set up a dedicated thread for modders to communicate with devs on that issue.
 
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