Comments: 3.0 Released

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Dharcness

Sergeant
WB
My savegames won't be compatible with 3.0 ? Ah nuts..  :sad:

Anyways, I notice the marriage ceremony still uses native ceremony. Would it be possible to change it to a japanese marriage ceremony?

Something I notice, if I destroy a bandit camp or a ronin camp by my own accord. Lords will still give me quest to destroy the said camp. Problem is the camp has been destroyed already and thus I cannot complete the quest.

During battle, if a troop somehow landed on the roof of the walled fence. The said troop will not know how to go down the said walled fence. The opposing troops will all gather below the roof of the walled fence trying to hit this troop. Those with melee weapon will try to hit this troop and those with range will try to hit this troop. Problem is since all of them are below the roof thus they cannot hit and kill this lone troop on top of the walled fence.

Keep up the good work!
 

Talinoth

Knight
misterbean08 said:
After conquering Kaga Ikki for some time, I decided to make make my 3 (Marisa, Kaguya, George) companions into vassals. Then I thought of marrying one of the 2 female vassals. I waited for them to respawn then suddenly: "other suitor have captured my heart" and its both of them lol. My MC is damn unlucky. Is there a tweak to make them have a lesser chance of having a suitor?

On someone with 100 relation it always says on the mini note when talking to them: "she is vengeful" or something.

Holy crap... with somebody who has "100 relation" to you, they're VENGEFUL?
That's not 100 relation, that's like -100!

Dude, that's bad. That's really bad. That's not positive - that's the most negative kind of relationship you can have with any lord, lady, ex-companion or other NPC in the game. ****, -50 is bad enough - enemy lords will routinely hunt you down whenever they can, burn your fiefs, will never, EVER join your faction if you make one, betray you if they already joined it before, and just generally be massive pains in the ass unless you can somehow get their disposition back up... or force them to leave the realm.

But "Vengeful" is like in the territory of -80 to -100 disposition... How the hell did you even manage that? If you have that kind of relationship status with Kaguya or Marisa they will absolutely never, EVER, become your wife.

-----
@Dharcness
Yeah, changing the marriage ceremony will add just that extra touch to the mod I think.

I'm pretty sure that just taking the quest will make another bandit camp spawn. You should be able to find it if you search around in the appropriate places - a.k.a, where the bandits usually spawn.

If you get on top of those walls, yes, you can avoid being hit by the melee troops below. The thing is though, is that you can still be shot by enemy gunners (it's happened to me so many times lol), and if there are any Elite Spearmen with the long Nagae Yaris they actually CAN hit you - so be careful about that. Plus, I find it easier to unload arrows into enemies who are running at me instead of enemies milling below me, so I don't find it that unbalanced.
 

misterbean08

Recruit
Talinoth said:
misterbean08 said:
After conquering Kaga Ikki for some time, I decided to make make my 3 (Marisa, Kaguya, George) companions into vassals. Then I thought of marrying one of the 2 female vassals. I waited for them to respawn then suddenly: "other suitor have captured my heart" and its both of them lol. My MC is damn unlucky. Is there a tweak to make them have a lesser chance of having a suitor?

On someone with 100 relation it always says on the mini note when talking to them: "she is vengeful" or something.

Holy crap... with somebody who has "100 relation" to you, they're VENGEFUL?
That's not 100 relation, that's like -100!

Dude, that's bad. That's really bad. That's not positive - that's the most negative kind of relationship you can have with any lord, lady, ex-companion or other NPC in the game. ****, -50 is bad enough - enemy lords will routinely hunt you down whenever they can, burn your fiefs, will never, EVER join your faction if you make one, betray you if they already joined it before, and just generally be massive pains in the ass unless you can somehow get their disposition back up... or force them to leave the realm.

But "Vengeful" is like in the territory of -80 to -100 disposition... How the hell did you even manage that? If you have that kind of relationship status with Kaguya or Marisa they will absolutely never, EVER, become your wife.

-----
@Dharcness
Yeah, changing the marriage ceremony will add just that extra touch to the mod I think.

I'm pretty sure that just taking the quest will make another bandit camp spawn. You should be able to find it if you search around in the appropriate places - a.k.a, where the bandits usually spawn.

If you get on top of those walls, yes, you can avoid being hit by the melee troops below. The thing is though, is that you can still be shot by enemy gunners (it's happened to me so many times lol), and if there are any Elite Spearmen with the long Nagae Yaris they actually CAN hit you - so be careful about that. Plus, I find it easier to unload arrows into enemies who are running at me instead of enemies milling below me, so I don't find it that unbalanced.

But when I click their portrait, it goes directly to their profile in the Notes, right? In the Notes it is written "They are devoted to you".  I'll try to make another save to check if I can successfully marry a female vassal.

**edited
so I tried to make a new save and looked for 4 female companions->cheatmenu->besiege town->make them into vassals->wait to respawn. 2 out 4 female companion vassals agreed to wed. I thought Yamatomarou Isshin won't get any ladies again.
**edited

I wonder if you could limit/manipulate the randomly generated family tree. When I tried to create a new save I saw a "lady" became a vassal's wife when previously she was his daughter. Weird lol.

I like how gekokujo's volley fire work. I've been shouting in my room while doing the volley fire. When the enemy is incoming, I always look at my archer troops. When they start positioning their bows/muskets, I press F3 and I shout "Kamae!" then "Utte!" when pressing F2. Let the game flow in you.
 

Dharcness

Sergeant
WB
Talinoth said:
If you get on top of those walls, yes, you can avoid being hit by the melee troops below. The thing is though, is that you can still be shot by enemy gunners (it's happened to me so many times lol), and if there are any Elite Spearmen with the long Nagae Yaris they actually CAN hit you - so be careful about that. Plus, I find it easier to unload arrows into enemies who are running at me instead of enemies milling below me, so I don't find it that unbalanced.

But what will happen if you are knocked unconcious during battle and don't have any Yari troops nor any range troops (gunners/archers) to kill that lone enemy on top of that roofed walled fence? How do you finish the battle?

 

Arzeal

Grandmaster Knight
If phlpp ever considers making Ninja into Gekokujo, I'd suggested avoid giving them "light/cloth" and throwing weapons; since M&B mechanic would hardly favour the type of "troop" without armor and the throwing mechanic is really bad.
Furthermore, if ninjas ever considered jumping a fully equiped samurai with 1 or 2 of his companions, wearing dark clothing and using short swords and throwing stars are very bad ideas!
I think PoP's Scorpion Assassin is a good model to portray Ninja in Gekokujo: Medium-armored and insanely fast, equipped with really fast custom one-handled weapon and carrrying very few throwing knifes with high damages.
P.s: you can also consider giving elite ninjas few primitive grenades, I think Napoleon is now open-source and they have a really good grenade script  :grin:
 

Talinoth

Knight
Well, that's most likely going to be a VERY rare situation. Letting yourself get knocked out, having no Yari ashigaru and then having no gunners or archers? If this actually happened to you... well, you were UNLUCKY dude.
Having all of those happen at once... the chances... are very low.

Personally, I very rarely get knocked out in sieges anymore, because when my health goes below 20% I just back off from the fight and just try to hit people from cover with long range weapons.
And I always have a ranged weapon.
And I always have marksmen in my party.
And Date Elite Spearmen are a decent enough way to pad up my party for when I have a lack of Hatamotos, so I usually have a few of them in my party.

If you couldn't actually finish a siege because of one guy on a wall... Well, unlucky?
 

Hazzardevil

Master Knight
NW
Arzeal said:
P.s: you can also consider giving elite ninjas few primitive grenades, I think Napoleon is now open-source and they have a really good grenade script  :grin:

That makes it require everything to be kept in a launcher and require NW, which will put off people without the DLC.
 
phlpp said:
the ronin have been replaced with the "samurai rebels", which now spawn near kyoto and have been changed to occasionally have cavalry

there's a new bandit spawn near where the ronin used to be, for the "monk rebels", which have as many gunners as ronin used to have archers

woku pirates also now have guns instead of bows

the game now spawns more parties of every category, though still only at the same individual sizes as before. it ranges from 60% more for most bandits to 200% more for deserters

i hope it's manageable and not a slaughter-fest

Yea I'm not going to be playing 3.0 it looks like to many gun now sorry.
 

Zeqe

Recruit
ApolloTheDragon said:
Yea I'm not going to be playing 3.0 it looks like to many gun now sorry.

Too many guns? Someone is unfamiliar with the time period... The Dutch and Portuguese weren't selling the Japanese loads of chocolate, buddy. Lol!

Anyhow, I found out where the red error message text is coming from Marty!

If you implement the newest version of Diplomacy it will fix it, as the script that is causing the error is a diplomacy script.

Also, check and make sure you're using the most up-to-date Freelancer, it should fix some of the Freelancer bugs like "Headless Doppleganger" or "Motionless Zombie Doppleganger" in the arena?
 
Hazzardevil said:
Arzeal said:
P.s: you can also consider giving elite ninjas few primitive grenades, I think Napoleon is now open-source and they have a really good grenade script  :grin:

That makes it require everything to be kept in a launcher and require NW, which will put off people without the DLC.
We've done explosive throwing weapons back in the original mount and blade. It's doable within the confines of even the original engine's restrictions.

Zeqe said:
ApolloTheDragon said:
Yea I'm not going to be playing 3.0 it looks like to many gun now sorry.

Too many guns? Someone is unfamiliar with the time period... The Dutch and Portuguese weren't selling the Japanese loads of chocolate, buddy. Lol!

Anyhow, I found out where the red error message text is coming from Marty!

If you implement the newest version of Diplomacy it will fix it, as the script that is causing the error is a diplomacy script.

Also, check and make sure you're using the most up-to-date Freelancer, it should fix some of the Freelancer bugs like "Headless Doppleganger" or "Motionless Zombie Doppleganger" in the arena?
Not to mention trade provinces like Sakai that manufactured matchlocks for any paying lord with sufficient goodwill.
 

Talinoth

Knight
Grenades were in With Fire & Sword (which I'm still playing, it's really fun by the way!) and that uses the same engine as Warband I think, so I think grenades could definitely work in a Warband mod as well!

Whether it'd be historically ACCURATE though... you'd certainly have to make them some kind of expensive novelty weapon instead of anything you can cheaply pick up and annihilate armies with, otherwise I'll go a full Charisma/Intelligence build, buy 10 or more sets of grenades then rip everything apart.

Of course, I realise grenades would be weak makeshift throwable black powder explosives, but the idea is still interesting nonetheless.

PS: Good pickup on the reason for the red error text! Phlpp has probably been spending HOURS trying to figure out what the hell has been causing that problem lol.
 
Most of the ancient grenades mentioned in both history and period fiction were influenced by the Chinese ones, which meant they were basically black powder mixed with some small lead balls wrapped in usually paper, but in some cases cloth as well, then covered with paper hardened with resin. So while they can be very damaging and demoralizing, they lack the damage radius of a modern grenade due to the lack of a pressure driven shrapnel (modern grenade's metal exterior) as well the strength shockwave that occurs in the explosion.

While someone might argue that the modern homemade nail/ball bearing bomb works just fine in an anti-personnel fashion, do note that those bombs were made with modern explosives and not rudimentary black powder. You had to balance the amount of shrapnel with the amount of powder in the grenade to make sure it goes bang hard enough, as well as sending enough shrapnel around for the grenade to be effective. In black powder's case historically speaking, people went for bang rather than balancing it with shrapnel.

In other words, an ancient grenade made to the size of a modern grenade or even slightly larger (within the limited confines of something 'throw-able') would not be a game changer (explains why that concept was never picked up in war-heavy ancient China, they needed cannonball sized ceramic grenades, metal ones were rarer, for it to be any effective. Also note that Chinese warfare was focused on siege warfare and despite their grenades being roughly hand grenade sized, most of them were not delivered by throwing) and instead was more of a novelty weapon.
 

Hazzardevil

Master Knight
NW
Cookie Eating Huskarl said:
Most of the ancient grenades mentioned in both history and period fiction were influenced by the Chinese ones, which meant they were basically black powder mixed with some small lead balls wrapped in usually paper, but in some cases cloth as well, then covered with paper hardened with resin. So while they can be very damaging and demoralizing, they lack the damage radius of a modern grenade due to the lack of a pressure driven shrapnel (modern grenade's metal exterior) as well the strength shockwave that occurs in the explosion.

While someone might argue that the modern homemade nail/ball bearing bomb works just fine in an anti-personnel fashion, do note that those bombs were made with modern explosives and not rudimentary black powder. You had to balance the amount of shrapnel with the amount of powder in the grenade to make sure it goes bang hard enough, as well as sending enough shrapnel around for the grenade to be effective. In black powder's case historically speaking, people went for bang rather than balancing it with shrapnel.

In other words, an ancient grenade made to the size of a modern grenade or even slightly larger (within the limited confines of something 'throw-able') would not be a game changer (explains why that concept was never picked up in war-heavy ancient China, they needed cannonball sized ceramic grenades, metal ones were rarer, for it to be any effective. Also note that Chinese warfare was focused on siege warfare and despite their grenades being roughly hand grenade sized, most of them were not delivered by throwing) and instead was more of a novelty weapon.

That reminds me, Blood and Steel and possibly 1776 American Revoloution have grenades in them. I remember them working if you wanted a short range explosive effect but can't remember if the visual effects worked.
 
I know the game going to have it up and downs but 2.1a had the right with the guns and bows did not have to many bows and not to many guns. So if you can reless one with less gun would be epic but. I don't really care about the time or any thing like that. But I'll keep an eye on this until it stop with the guns nuts
 

Pallanza

Sergeant
WB
The only thing I really want for this mod to be is the semi-realistic portrayal of warfare and political intrigue that was present in Japan during the time period. If anything, suggestions like "we need ninja troops that instead of being spies or saboteurs just flip around on the battlefield and wear metal armor and can throw daggers hard enough to punch through samurai armor and also they're super tough and can outfight samurais any day because I think anime is a perfect representation of real life" bull**** only detract from the mod's qualities that attracted so many people in the first place. If you want crap like that, just go play the Naruto mod some dude was creating in the Forge, and let the comparatively accurate realism of troops in this mod be.
 

Zeqe

Recruit
Pallanza said:
The only thing I really want for this mod to be is the semi-realistic portrayal of warfare and political intrigue that was present in Japan during the time period. If anything, suggestions like "we need ninja troops that instead of being spies or saboteurs just flip around on the battlefield and wear metal armor and can throw daggers hard enough to punch through samurai armor and also they're super tough and can outfight samurais any day because I think anime is a perfect representation of real life" bull**** only detract from the mod's qualities that attracted so many people in the first place. If you want crap like that, just go play the Naruto mod some dude was creating in the Forge, and let the comparatively accurate realism of troops in this mod be.

Although not quite as vehement, I agree that realism is the way to go. However, if the NPCs who attacked you in the streets at night were a group of 5-10 Ninja outfitted for assassination... I would be A-OK with that. Grenades and all.  As that was sort of the modus operandi of the Ninja.

I like the political intrigue game idea as well.  It wouldn't take much, as all that really needs to happen is that lords are proactive in their attempts to force intrigue quests on you (the "improve our standing in this realm" quests, but involving more duels, denunciations, or spreading rumors of incompetence).  Most of the code is already there for the quest types in Native the triggers just need to be changed.  Just an idea that came to me, clearly it needs work.

EDIT: As an addendum I'd really like more espionage style quests in general. The Sneak/Spy Info Retrieval quest is neat, but maybe something involving a quick guard assassination/stealth minimap, city sabotage (burn something down in the city of a rival clan?), or a daimyo chamber infiltration scenario where you "Wound" him to send a message as a covert agent (hesitate to use the term Ninja here ;p).  I know very little about python coding, so I don't know how feasible these are, but they could be based off of the lord dialog triggers, and use the "Jailbreak" maps, maybe?
 

phlpp

Knight
WBWF&S
ApolloTheDragon said:
I know the game going to have it up and downs but 2.1a had the right with the guns and bows did not have to many bows and not to many guns. So if you can reless one with less gun would be epic but. I don't really care about the time or any thing like that. But I'll keep an eye on this until it stop with the guns nuts
The guns are staying, but I made the "skirmishers" to address that for me. I didn't like seeing all-gun armies because it felt "off", so the skirmishers were a way for me to prevent players and factions from being all-guns (just mostly-guns) unless they wanted to pay extra for it by recruiting only samurai gunners.
 
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