COMBAT FEEDBACK

[Hairy Yahoo]

Hey guys.

I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with combat but couldn't run any tests in duel server (when i played MP we didn't have duel servers, I'm waiting for cRPG to return MP) There's apperantly something wrong since most of the duels turn into attack-block sequence. Maybe lack of spam mechanics, wrongly set stun-durations on-hit & on-block, lack of glancing on armor or smth... Not sure. I quiet like the directional block with shields, interruptions like punch/shield bash etc., animations are good except 2h thrust which looks weird. There's apperantly something wrong since most of the duels turn into attack-block sequence. Maybe lack of spam mechanics, wrongly set stun-durations on-hit & on-block, lack of glancing on armor or smth... Not sure.

In Warband there were 4 critical aspects: spamming, hold-attacks, footwork and fakes. How you mix spam-hold attacks with some fakes and proper footwork used to define your playstyle.

Here in bannerlord It's too punishing to even try something rather than attack-block-attack-block sequence. Warband combat feels far smoother to me. Maybe it's just me I dunno? What are your thoughts? How do you find the combat in bannerlord compared to warband's? Am I the only one who couldn't set a fighting pattern in bannerlord? Have you seen any good and fun to watch duels in duel server if you've attended to? Any videos or smth ?

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

The only real problem with Bannerlords combat is the lack of responsiveness. There have been numerous threads about that, the devs know about it and implied to have changes planned. The combat in Bannerlord gives more options and is way more complex than Warbands combat. I play on the duel server allmost every day and all my duels are very different from each other. One I win with foodwork, going slightly out of range, dodging a hit and others by feinting, timing or aggressiveness. The only times, where it allways seems to end in block attack sequences is with shields. That is just boring and annoying, but I honestly don't know a solution to that right now. Warbands combat system tends to get glorified, but it was very simple and had many flaws as well. It was very responsive, which Bannerlords combat is not, that is the only thing which makes it better in any way.

 

[Hairy Yahoo]

The only real problem with Bannerlords combat is the lack of responsiveness. There have been numerous threads about that, the devs know about it and implied to have changes planned. The combat in Bannerlord gives more options and is way more complex than Warbands combat. I play on the duel server allmost every day and all my duels are very different from each other. One I win with foodwork, going slightly out of range, dodging a hit and others by feinting, timing or aggressiveness. The only times, where it allways seems to end in block attack sequences is with shields. That is just boring and annoying, but I honestly don't know a solution to that right now. Warbands combat system tends to get glorified, but it was very simple and had many flaws as well. It was very responsive, which Bannerlords combat is not, that is the only thing which makes it better in any way.

So the problem is hitboxes and speed? What makes the combat responsive? It doesn't feel right I don't get what's wrong but it doesn't flow as it should be.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

So the problem is hitboxes and speed? What makes the combat responsive? It doesn't feel right I don't get what's wrong but it doesn't flow as it should be.

This is the problem with Bannerlords combat https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-delay.425228/

 

[a_ver_est]

Well, I am having lot of fun with this setup:
- 1st person view
- realistic difficulty settings
- 1 handed spear
- North round shield

The spear can push the enemy allowing some sort of out of range battle vs swords and if they come close I kick them with the shield followed with a quick spear attack and then move back to safe distance.

My main concern is the damage model, I mean a head shoot with a spear should kill anyone unless he wears a good helmet and it is not the case, you can hit even twice and they will be still alive.

Using other kind of weapons I feel clumsy right now, but of course it just a matter of training.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

Well, I am having lot of fun with this setup:
- 1st person view
- realistic difficulty settings
- 1 handed spear
- North round shield

The spear can push the enemy allowing some sort of out of range battle vs swords and if they come close I kick them with the shield followed with a quick spear attack and then move back to safe distance.

My main concern is the damage model, I mean a head shoot with a spear should kill anyone unless he wears a good helmet and it is not the case, you can hit even twice and they will be still alive.

Using other kind of weapons I feel clumsy right now, but of course it just a matter of training.

Your setup seems more than sub optimal for multiplayer duels to be honest, you sure that works? And there is no problem with the damage model in my opinion. If I hit someone on the head, it makes as much demage as I would expect and thats a lot of demage.

 

[a_ver_est]

Your setup seems more than sub optimal for multiplayer duels to be honest, you sure that works? And there is no problem with the damage model in my opinion. If I hit someone on the head, it makes as much demage as I would expect and thats a lot of demage.

wops! Mostly single player, sorry. I misread the original post.?

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

wops! Mostly single player, sorry. I misread the original post.?

Have you tried this setup in multiplayer?

 

[a_ver_est]

Have you tried this setup in multiplayer?

Yes but not in a duel (1 vs 1) and being totally honest I just going into MP to see how is it, but I don't use to play in that mode so I didn't care so much if I lost or not, it was just to test it.

 

[Biyonik]

Yes but not in a duel (1 vs 1) and being totally honest I just going into MP to see how is it, but I don't use to play in that mode so I didn't care so much if I lost or not, it was just to test it.

1st person doesnt really work in mp. You need to be aware of your surroundings

 

[Hairy Yahoo]

This is the problem with Bannerlords combat https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-delay.425228/

Thanks I see you've explained it well in your thread. Random chain attacks are noticable combo breakers aswell. It looks better, even fakes seem better looking in the eye but now I get it, while dueling you are actually thinking 2-3 moves ahead and because of these unpredictable chain attacks and weird animation switches, it disrupts your thinking and planning ahead, hence causing the character you control fail to reflect your thoughts while fighting.

This, we didn't have in warband because of its primitive combat mechanics. No matter how weird it looks (because animations are not linked, moment of swings were disregarded) character you control was doing exactly what you want it to do. Here, game tells you aah so you wanna cancel left swing and start your right swing, ok here's some physics for you *****!

So as conclusion I think this is an intended and permanent design of combat, "handling" stat seems to affect the speed of these linked animations btw, if your weapon has high handling stat, these linked animations may benefit, but if handling is too low (especially big and slow swingable polearms) chain animations become a headache.

 

[froggyluv]

This, we didn't have in warband because of its primitive combat mechanics. No matter how weird it looks (because animations are not linked, moment of swings were disregarded) character you control was doing exactly what you want it to do. Here, game tells you aah so you wanna cancel left swing and start your right swing, ok here's some physics for you *****!

Well said -Ha!

Thats exactly my experience being an old dueler from POM in Warband -perfecting those missing animation spamming feints was unbelievably satisfying but totally unrealistic. I dont blame TW for wanting to correct this though may have been an over-correction

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

Thanks I see you've explained it well in your thread. Random chain attacks are noticable combo breakers aswell. It looks better, even fakes seem better looking in the eye but now I get it, while dueling you are actually thinking 2-3 moves ahead and because of these unpredictable chain attacks and weird animation switches, it disrupts your thinking and planning ahead, hence causing the character you control fail to reflect your thoughts while fighting.

This, we didn't have in warband because of its primitive combat mechanics. No matter how weird it looks (because animations are not linked, moment of swings were disregarded) character you control was doing exactly what you want it to do. Here, game tells you aah so you wanna cancel left swing and start your right swing, ok here's some physics for you *****!

So as conclusion I think this is an intended and permanent design of combat, "handling" stat seems to affect the speed of these linked animations btw, if your weapon has high handling stat, these linked animations may benefit, but if handling is too low (especially big and slow swingable polearms) chain animations become a headache.

It wouldn't be a problem if the animations were in any way predictable, because your muscle memory gets used to it, so Taleworlds intended delay due to the animations is perfectly fine. But they are not regular and predictable. The animations are sometimes like you expect them to be and sometimes completely all over the place. You can see in this video, I am pressing rmb and really quickly lmb to feint and attack, but the game doesent even recognise the mouse input for some reason. It only executes the actions when I pressed them twice already and waited for a second (which is a lot in Bannerlord duels).

It's difficult to explain, but to say it short, Bannerlords combat system has a reaction problem, which is really bad for a game thats based on millisecond player action and game reaction.