B Other Combat Animation Enhancement - Fifth Release with Trailer 15/11/10

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Hey Papa, I just started a SP game so I thought I'd try out your animation changes.

Just wanted to let you know that I think they're awesome. I keep getting my ass handed to me because I don't instantly recognise which direction I need to block yet, but at least my deaths look good.
 
Lazarou, if you have too much time at hand at some point, could you think about making a proper animation for getting decapitated or losing a hand?
 
Papa Lazarou 说:
I just halved the speed stats on all the bows.

Pardon my ignorance, can you let me know how to increase the bow speed?

I love all of the combat animations, but the one for bows make all Archers ridiculously easy to kill.  Any time I come up against forest bandits, sea raiders,  or Vaegir/Sarrinid/Nord archers, I'm pretty much free to have my way with them.  I feel like it's a little too easy, and would like to give them a fighting chance :]
 
Thanks, HTPAWASO!

Urist 说:
Lazarou, if you have too much time at hand at some point, could you think about making a proper animation for getting decapitated or losing a hand?
I might give this a shot when my real computer comes back from the shop, actually. You're thinking a death animation, I guess? If you wanted to give me a description of what you're looking for or an example of something similar, feel free.

bryharr 说:
Papa Lazarou 说:
I just halved the speed stats on all the bows.

Pardon my ignorance, can you let me know how to increase the bow speed?
Yes, but it's a bit complicated.

You need to go into the mod folder, and open the "item_kinds1.txt" file. Then, search (Ctrl + F) for "hunting_bow". You'll find something like this:

itm_hunting_bow Hunting_Bow Hunting_Bow 2  hunting_bow 0  hunting_bow_carry 3458764513820540928  6357000 5905584128 17 655370 1.000000 100 0 0 0 0 0 50 52 0 0 271 0
0
0

The number highlighted in green (50) is the bow's speed. Double this number for all of the bows, and the speeds will be back to normal. (Actually I rounded some of them, so to be really exact you could open the Native item_kinds1.txt and find the corresponding values, but it's probably not worth it.)

Hope that works, let me know if not.
 
Hey Lazarou, have you considered adding an over-head stab animation and attack direction to spear and shield users?
I realize there are difficulties with such a thing perhaps, but it would certainly make my day.

As far as I know, Blood & Steel did it also, but I found it poorly done and useless.
 
There's only two things that I'd love to see: one is a proper shield holding animation for when couching, so that you hold the shield much close to the chest. And the other is some idle animations. I'm not even sure this is possible, but we've come a long way in Warband.

It would be cool if troops who were standing around at the beginning of a battle would do things like spit, or examine their sword blade, or maybe even pray.
 
RalliX 说:
Hey Lazarou, have you considered adding an over-head stab animation and attack direction to spear and shield users?
I realize there are difficulties with such a thing perhaps, but it would certainly make my day.
I don't know how to add the attack direction, unfortunately. It may or may not be possible. But I could make it so that the X key would switch to an over-head stab mode (reverse or normal grip) for close range. It would still count as a thrust attack though.

Llew2 说:
There's only two things that I'd love to see: one is a proper shield holding animation for when couching, so that you hold the shield much close to the chest. And the other is some idle animations. I'm not even sure this is possible, but we've come a long way in Warband.
I could definitely do the shield stuff, if there's demand for it.

I probably won't do idle animations though, mostly for mechanical reasons. There's limited number of idle animations, and I don't know how to differentiate between a pre-combat and in-combat idle animation.
 
I would chime in with support for the shield close to chest for couching. I'd also like to pitch another idea, Big papa.  :mrgreen:

I believe my buddy Lynores did an animation in TPW which has the hoplite thrust with the spear (overhand) while holding the shield 'passively' to protect the torso - rather than the vanilla animation where it's held 'passively' to the side, and even further to the side when you thrust.

What I would love to see is a non hoplite, more medieval/general subject friendly "Shield wall" animation for spear thrusting. Where the animation has the shield passively held up to protect the torso/front while thrusting, and even through the thrust.
 
Probably something approaching what happens when you have two shield walls shoving one another. Pushing, kicking, spears striking out and nailing some guys in sudden openings and so on. Certainly much better than what happens now with spearmen which is usually "lol u dead brah".  :grin:
 
would be better for there to be a brief moment of exposure before and after the thrust, say when readying the thrust and when recovering from thrusting. That would speed it up a little, I think.
 
I agree with Sahran.
But how would you get the AI to know when to use which thrust.
The only real way to do it is to script in some sort of formation where they are forced to STOP and use this given animation.
 
I think from what we discussed earlier Outlawed you had in mind the animation linked to the attack mode, while I had it in mind linked to the generic attack itself. Blobmania - that's a possibility, but I think it'd be kind of odd to artificially force an opening if there wasn't any - Papa is more an expert in medieval spear fighting than I am, but generally I'd like to see something where they don't behave like they do in vanilla. It's just plain silly to have them part the shield to the side, leaving their entire front back and then push out their shield arm even further to the left when they thrust.
 
It may be a little awkward at first, but there needs to be some sort of opening or the whole fight will come down to whoever has the best shield and weapon, rather than who is thinking properly about what he's doing.

One option would be to code in a second "attack mode" for melee weapons, which uses attacks specifically designed for shield wall combat. That would provide much more scope for adding other close-ranged and protected attacks as well, but could be balanced in open combat with lower manouverability or something similar.
 
I quite like the idea of a short-range mode for spears, and I'll probably do something with the X switch. Maybe just use it to shorten the range, or maybe animate a high thrust as well. Were you thinking of a reverse grip or normal grip, Sahran?

Unfortunately there'd need to be mechanical changes to improve one-handed spears properly. A thrust effective at short range would be a start, but ideally we'd have more attack directions as well.

As for shields, I positioned them that way because the mechanics allow an attacking player to be hit. I thought it'd be better if the visuals were consistent with that.
 
There are already animations for high thrust two handed and one handed for spears in native files.

Trouble is getting things to work.
 
Blobmania 说:
It may be a little awkward at first, but there needs to be some sort of opening or the whole fight will come down to whoever has the best shield and weapon, rather than who is thinking properly about what he's doing.

One option would be to code in a second "attack mode" for melee weapons, which uses attacks specifically designed for shield wall combat. That would provide much more scope for adding other close-ranged and protected attacks as well, but could be balanced in open combat with lower manouverability or something similar.

But again, the problem with alternative attack modes is that the AI won't use it. The issue of spear animations is both a player one (principally multiplayer) and ai one (singleplayer). X mode switch is fine and dandy to feature and if it's easy to, should be, but we can't rely on it for the means to actually make spear armed infantry -useful-. Multiple attack directions is the holy grail of that but as far as I know will really require work on Taleworld's end - not ours. The only possibility that leaps to mind as I understand it would be to re-appropriate another animation set (2 handed, 1 handed, or polearm) to use their slots - and that's not really something Papa could do or probably wants to.

Papa: To be honest the X camp is Outlawed's (he has some great ideas on it I think) and Blobmania. My camp is the "change regular spear animation to be more shield-wall-y". When you have a weapon that can only thrust, and hence can be blocked automatically by holding down the lower guard, it needs some other incentive to actually be useful. Most of the time that's anti-cavalry (which means its gimp in inf vs inf), or it's high damage or high speed. I'd love to see it where you have the spearman actually present the shield in a defensive posture while he is thrusting. It doesn't have to be an ironclad, perfect posture, just something that works akin to a phalanx of aspises (aspisi?), where if you have a line of spearmen in perfect order, cracking it from the front is going to take numbers or kicking or shield bashing. But if you have that formation broken, then the spearman would be easy prey for the swordsman.

I mean think about how many dang advantages the swordsman has in most cases:
1) More attack directions
2) Usually equal or higher attack rating
3) Usually equal or higher speed
4) Shield-damage if it's a 1h axe
5) FACE HUGGING - do this, and the spearman can't do jack **** unless it's a lucky hit.

The X option is great for multiplayer but unless you script it for the AI it doesn't solve the fundamental singleplayer issue. Considering how even with formation scripting AI never really engage one another in a solid, perfect line, I'd see a match of spearmen AI vs spearmen AI not as a neat and tidy | meets |, but more a pushing/shoving match where side A might penetrate the line and start to stab away at the fleshy inner of side B, but their very push leaves their sides open for side B to start stabby-stabby, and so you get a vicious, bloody swirl of spear-thrusting.



 
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