Class system overhaul/rebalance/shuffle/suggestions

[Caps]

Armoured horses were the thing I was thinking about. You shouldn't be able to straight-up pick a fully armoured horse.

thats why they should make light cav viable and higher the cost of heavy to 200

the problem is that some factions dont even have light inf like the empire, vlandia (sturgia??, well not a proper one) and tbh i dont rly wanna see shock inf replaced, they are still fun in casuals

idk how i feel about 45 arrows, archers should still be forced to manage their ressources and not just spam them nonstop. Especially if people cant go for the heavy options anymore. Archers hit pretty hard with insane accuracy.

 

[NightC2win]

The class system isn't a good idea in the first place, the warband system was far superior. But even saying that, the weapon and loadout choices make even less sense... they are almost random and the choices are so lazy... oh "better armor" or for some reason i can carry a 1 handed mace and a 1 handed axe.. or everyone gets spears (which aren't as good as warband) or I have javs but no shield or I can't get a shield at all unless I pick one up. Or I am an archer that can two hand better then an infantry and also ride a horse as good as cav (lol good job)

 

[Mabons]

thats why they should make light cav viable and higher the cost of heavy to 200

Yup, that's what I've said in my post

the problem is that some factions dont even have light inf like the empire, vlandia (sturgia??, well not a proper one) and tbh i dont rly wanna see shock inf replaced, they are still fun in casuals

The only faction missing light infantry is Empire, which has the recruit as it's 100g class. Peasant and Warrior can both be pseudo shock infantry at the moment which is a bit daft. Rabble is pretty crap.

idk how i feel about 45 arrows, archers should still be forced to manage their ressources and not just spam them nonstop. Especially if people cant go for the heavy options anymore. Archers hit pretty hard with insane accuracy.

Light archers have no armour, can't run, and can't really fight in melee, they need the ammo to start putting shots down range fast.

 

[Kylbee]

I don't think we should even discuss how to fix the system. It needs to be scrapped in its entirety. Don't give in to the bs that we're being fed. We told them from the start that it was a bad idea, and multiplayer is going to suffer from it. I don't see why we should have to deal with it when it can be fixed if the devs just got over themselves and admit it was a stupid idea.

 

[Caps]

I don't think we should even discuss how to fix the system. It needs to be scrapped in its entirety. Don't give in to the bs that we're being fed. We told them from the start that it was a bad idea, and multiplayer is going to suffer from it. I don't see why we should have to deal with it when it can be fixed if the devs just got over themselves and admit it was a stupid idea.

the system definetly needs to be worked on so all the units are pickable at the moment only half of the roster gets used. But its way better than what we had. You guys probably didnt open warband for a while. The warband system had several flaws, even more than the current one imo.

 

[metafa]

I don't think we should even discuss how to fix the system. It needs to be scrapped in its entirety. Don't give in to the bs that we're being fed. We told them from the start that it was a bad idea, and multiplayer is going to suffer from it. I don't see why we should have to deal with it when it can be fixed if the devs just got over themselves and admit it was a stupid idea.

I know OP took a different approach to the thread, but to everyone arguing like this, I just explained in the other thread why the class system is a good change with respect to the WB system.

Remember how you can block better than most? Well then, you don't need to have a shield. Granted. Save the money. And remember how you can hit very precisely with javelins from horses? Right. Add those. And remember how you can decrease damage from incoming swings with armor and how you know what is the best armor from playing days on end? Well then, congratulations. To everyone who just joined for the first time even from playing exclusively SP up until now or even very casually having joined MP very rarely you are now an f-ing tank, unbeatable. And he will not have a very good experience. Whereas with the class system, he knows the classes from SP and can immediately upon seeing the classes and seeing you determine how to proceed. The WB system makes you a specialized animal. At a minimum to everyone new/kinda new to BL MP.

 

[metafa]

CURRENT ISSUES WITH PERKS GLOBALLY:
-Too many classes lack shields
-Too many classes have spears/pikes
-Too many classes have/have the option to get too much armour
-Too many classes have throwing weapons

OP, I don't understand your arguments though. With WB system all of this would be even more relevant. Then players could pick the most leathal equipment. I agree with the throwing weapons. Disagree with the shields and maybe slightly with the armor. They are heavy and don't fit with many other pieces of equipment.

 

[Caius_III]

They should've kept it simple, allowing each faction to choose their pieces of equipment with a certain gold limit just like in Warband, whether you wanted to take a spear and a shield or a shield and a sword, or both, or no shield was up to you + it would've make it way more easier for them to balance the whole thing. If they really wanted to make it simple for newcomers, just adding some premade sets of equipment just like in Mercenaries for example would've been perfect.

 

[Younes]

They should've kept it simple, allowing each faction to choose their pieces of equipment with a certain gold limit just like in Warband, whether you wanted to take a spear and a shield or a shield and a sword, or both, or no shield was up to you + it would've make it way more easier for them to balance the whole thing. If they really wanted to make it simple for newcomers, just adding some premade sets of equipment just like in Mercenaries for example would've been perfect.

This ^

 

[metafa]

They should've kept it simple, allowing each faction to choose their pieces of equipment with a certain gold limit just like in Warband, whether you wanted to take a spear and a shield or a shield and a sword, or both, or no shield was up to you + it would've make it way more easier for them to balance the whole thing. If they really wanted to make it simple for newcomers, just adding some premade sets of equipment just like in Mercenaries for example would've been perfect.

Still doesn't solve the specialization problem.

And it's also not true, because the equipment for the different factions is different, is *supposed* to be different, and would thereby still need the same kind of balancing. Only then potentially more because you would have to keep in mind all the combinations of equipment someone can carry.

 

[๖Kern]

Having more combinations of equipment does not necessarily make it harder to balance, that might be a false assumption.

 

[metafa]

Having more combinations of equipment does not necessarily make it harder to balance, that might be a false assumption.

It's actually not only an assumption, you could argue you can prove it mathematically. It's also overwhelming for newbies.

 

[Mabons]

I don't think we should even discuss how to fix the system. It needs to be scrapped in its entirety. Don't give in to the bs that we're being fed. We told them from the start that it was a bad idea, and multiplayer is going to suffer from it. I don't see why we should have to deal with it when it can be fixed if the devs just got over themselves and admit it was a stupid idea.

Yeah but this isn't the thread for that. This is a thread for attempting to balance what we've got.

OP, I don't understand your arguments though. With WB system all of this would be even more relevant. Then players could pick the most leathal equipment. I agree with the throwing weapons. Disagree with the shields and maybe slightly with the armor. They are heavy and don't fit with many other pieces of equipment.

No, with the WB system archers were limited to having either a strong bow or strong armour. Most people took a strong bow. They didn't have access to spears. With the gold system if you wanted to take a 2 hander you were limited by what else you could take. Classes without shields are essentially endlessly gimped, and in competitive games of Warband people literally took a free shield to drop to their archers because it was that necessary.

They should've kept it simple, allowing each faction to choose their pieces of equipment with a certain gold limit just like in Warband, whether you wanted to take a spear and a shield or a shield and a sword, or both, or no shield was up to you + it would've make it way more easier for them to balance the whole thing. If they really wanted to make it simple for newcomers, just adding some premade sets of equipment just like in Mercenaries for example would've been perfect.

Agreed, but again this isn't the thread to discuss this. (On a side note, with none of the classes having any discernable stats this system would have worked perfectly by letting all equipment selection be fluid!)

Still doesn't solve the specialization problem.

And it's also not true, because the equipment for the different factions is different, is *supposed* to be different, and would thereby still need the same kind of balancing. Only then potentially more because you would have to keep in mind all the combinations of equipment someone can carry.

This happens with the class system as well? With Caius's system it just means if you're playing Khuzait for example you can take Glaive with Spear Infantry Armour and a big shield?

It's actually not only an assumption, you could argue you can prove it mathematically. It's also overwhelming for newbies.

This would be a good arguement if the class system was actually balanced, and Warband wasn't far off with it's balance in the first place.

 

[Helz]

Remember how you can block better than most? Well then, you don't need to have a shield. Granted. Save the money. And remember how you can hit very precisely with javelins from horses? Right. Add those. And remember how you can decrease damage from incoming swings with armor and how you know what is the best armor from playing days on end? Well then, congratulations. To everyone who just joined for the first time even from playing exclusively SP up until now or even very casually having joined MP very rarely you are now an f-ing tank, unbeatable. And he will not have a very good experience. Whereas with the class system, he knows the classes from SP and can immediately upon seeing the classes and seeing you determine how to proceed. The WB system makes you a specialized animal. At a minimum to everyone new/kinda new to BL MP.

Being able to block is an advantage that comes with a lot of practice. Not taking a shield makes you extremely susceptible to ranged attacks. Jav Cav is a far less accurate, more vulnerable version of Horse Archer. Heavy armor offers a lot of protection, but its also slow and expensive. Warband isn't like min-maxing a character in DnD, there are tradeoffs for everything and no gear guarantees a win.

 

[Younes]

Being able to block is an advantage that comes with a lot of practice. Not taking a shield makes you extremely susceptible to ranged attacks. Jav Cav is a far less accurate, more vulnerable version of Horse Archer. Heavy armor offers a lot of protection, but its also slow and expensive. Warband isn't like min-maxing a character in DnD, there are tradeoffs for everything and no gear guarantees a win.

Metafa does not understand what he wrote.

 

[Mabons]

Metafa does not understand what he wrote.

Ah that makes me feel better then, if the person who wrote it can't understand it what chance do I have?

 

[Piconi]

An awesome thread with high amount of detailed suggestions !
Now moved to Feedback & Suggestions>Multiplayer

 

[Tork789]

I actually really like the heavy cavalry suggestions for the most part. Wouldn't even mind a cost increase, although I believe 200 is too much, 190 would do fine imo. And if not and the data will show that, the devs can increase it later.

 

[Mabons]

An awesome thread with high amount of detailed suggestions !
Now moved to Feedback & Suggestions>Multiplayer

隐藏: O.O

Piconi, something you ain't telling us?

 

[Piconi]

Piconi, something you ain't telling us?

Pay more attention,there are no secrets and no conspiracy theories

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/mp-top-suggestions-feedback.416009/page-3#post-9432182