Class System and Balancing

Would you agree with something like this being introduced


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Crypex

Recruit
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TLDR; If we separate perks from equipment class balancing would be easier and the developers will make the class system work and many players will be contempt with most balancing changes. This system would also make it better for giving a base for modding, developers will also be given a good base to add skins or new equipment from SP to MP, etc.


It is true that the devs really care about the game and a lot of the things that users asked for were given to them as block delay, crush through being fixed and that is very good. The devs definitely care and given enough time they can make the game very fun and unique like Warband. However, I feel that the developers are making their own job harder especially with balancing and moving forward with new stuff and equipment being implemented in multiplayer. There is a major problem with classes as some classes are usually trash regardless of how much they try to change the class because of perk limitations. Some classes would be super OP or useless. This is because there are so many variables that limiting choices of a player to just 6 variables significantly limits the options and flavor of what they can add to their team. That leads to some perks being useless and overall generally ignored.

Examples of 1.55 balancing problems
Kuzait infantry trading sword/maces for armor
Wilding throwing spear problem
Legionaries losing their throwing weapons
improved shields being traded for spears


these are all things that are problematic and I believe that while the perk system can have a lot of value the problem is with equipment being considered a perk. There always has to be a trade-off given the number of options. So what can we do?

Well, a good solution to the problem in my opinion is to separate equipment from perks. As we can see the perk system does exist in SP so if we were to implement these perks the same way to MP and then separate equipment from perks then the developer and user are able to choose the equipment that fits their style then augment it with 2 out of 3-5 perks chosen from single player.

Rules to follow when developing a system
Perks are faction-specific
Perk type is dependent on the type of class we have


The examples I have will be an example of how we can apply this system
Examples
Infantry
Cheap:
Cheap infantry will have worse perks and might need a specific perk to unlock high tier equipment this would make it so the user can access good quality at the expense of choosing perks that help with swing speed, damage, shield weight, hooked spears etc..
Expensive: Expensive infantry would be able to utilize all infantry equipment and are then able to augment this hight tier equipment with perks that are more unique to the class such as slightly higher health, shields are half health, better swing speed etc..

So take for example Khuzait infantry being garbage infantry, if we separate the perks from the equipment we can then augment a bad class with specific traits that can better help the class perform better in specific scenarios.
So the Khuzait infantry for example can choose between all the equipment such as throwing spear, mace, heavy sword, normal sword etc..

perks to choose from would be a lighter shield, faster run speed, more accurate throwing, ability to wield higher tier armor, ability to dismount riders more effectively with hooked spears.

This would make builds more unique and no basic meta will be followed as players will be able to augment their class with specific skills that help them.

Archers
Cheap:
Can utilize some good traits but is still limited by the quality of equipment and thus the archer needs to dedicate a perk that can be used for more accuracy, faster bow release, ability to wield shields, etc..
Expensive: The Unit can wield all bow level equipment and is, therefore, able to specialize in specific perks that better improve the performance of the class. This follows the same premise for high tier infantry.

So take for example Sturgia despite it having very poor archers if we can choose equipment such as longbow, good shield, decent axe, 2h weapons.
We can augment those options with perks that can help the class handle better quality bows, ability to shoot faster, ability to handle larger quivers, ability to hold better quality armor, or higher damage.

You can now turn a Sturgian archer into a class that can multi-task in both infantry and archers or you can make the class focus primarily on dealing damage with the highest quality bow. This makes it so players can get value from a very 1-dimensional class.

Cavalry
Cheap:
Can utilize good traits such as the ability to handle higher quality horses, ability to handle lances, better infantry performance if the user is dismounted, etc.
Expensive: The same concept applies to quality as mentioned in other classes.

Take for example Imperial Heavy cavalry
The cavalry is super limited, the user has to choose between an agile horse or a weapon that is unusable in infantry fights. This is very bad and if we separate classes like this would heavily benefit from the changes.

There are oddball classes such as horse archers and peasant infantry, however, I believe that the developers can be creative with their approaches for those classes.


This would also give modders a framework to mod the game and will make it a lot easier for the developer to add more equipment from SP to MP.

@AVRC
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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The devs are not planning to rework the class system, it's pretty obvious ever since the alpha/beta.
 

Craven4

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
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Great ideas if TW was listening but I think the time for compromise is over and we should just wait till we can abandon classes entirely on full release if we're that lucky.
 

Byas

Sergeant
WBNW
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This game came out right around the same time as Bannerlord, alot fun would recommend imo.

I'm just gonna wait till some Bannerlord Multiplayer Mod comes out at this point and if it somehow becomes on par with Warband or better then might be worth playing. ( in terms of 250 player server size etc.)
 

Mabons

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Great ideas if TW was listening but I think the time for compromise is over and we should just wait till we can abandon classes entirely on full release if we're that lucky.
Here is your answer. We are past the point of no return now, they(TW) will not go back now.
 

Danny5

Regular
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TW are staying with the class systems, so unless if they change a bit on perks and equipments for balancing issues, it's all we are going to get, just have to deal with it. I guess they can have more varities in equipment for each class and factions. Maybe having more perks that can buff troops? Higher tier units can buff lower tiers within say a specifc radius, like recruits, can move faster or something like that, but it might be unbalanced. Maybe having a captain troop, but they are limited to 5 people, and you need to get say 10 kills in a match to unlock. Idk, maybe this would be good for another game mode, like humans vs bots, survival mode?