Civilization : Beyond Earth

[Rujasu]

After the gods and kings expansion the game was good again and only continued to get better.

Having played it in PBEM for over a year, I can safely say it has been oversimplified to some extent. A single turn is not a meaningful chunk of gameplay in it.

 

[Kevlar]

A single turn is not a meaningful chunk of gameplay in it.

Good thing the game has more than one turn then.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Aaaaaand:

It's a tough balance to strike because we want to reach a new audience. We want to get to those XCOM fans who may not have played Civ because history wasn't their thing, or strategy gamers that are playing a lot of these strategy games on IOS, that haven't tried Civ before. We want to reach those people, so we're trying to make the game more accessible for them, but also catering to our hardcore fans. We think a lot about 'oooh, what would they think if we took this out and put this in'. We try to listen to that, but we really want this product to stand on its own, and we've taken some risks, and made some changes that are surprising I think to fans, but I really think that they'll like it. David and I are relatively young designers. This is our first big Civ product. We've worked in Civ a little bit. We've done our time on Civ stuff, but it's really a testament to Firaxis to trust us and let us take this chance and make this new thing.

http://m.pcgamer.com/2014/04/12/civilization-beyond-earth-interview-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-factions-aliens-technology-and-more/


I'm so out.
I mean that essentially says they don't want "me", so I don't see why I should try to like it.

 

[Goker]

You're calling it early then. None of those things are inherently bad. Streamlining doesn't have to mean loss of depth.

 

[Harkon Haakonson]

It's our dear Wellie, a skeptical pessimist to the core.
I for one am curious and will try it, but I predict only after expansions... I only played Civ 5 after Gods and Kings came out and it did feel very good with the features I know it added, couldn't imagine it without them.

 

[Jhessail]

Give it another 10 years and XCOM 2012 will be the game held up on the pedestal and Game X will be baby's first puzzle game. And by the way, I thought Civilization Revolutions was pretty good for a console strategy.

I tried it out on a friend's iPad and it is very well designed. It's easy to pick-up and it's easy to play and you're guaranteed to win. It's also ridiculously simplistic.

She posted that at 22:50 on a Saturday. Chances are she was wasted and angry at everything.

I don't even remember posting that. I thought I hadn't touched my laptop that night. 

Jhessail probably never played CiV V but just read about it online on 'hipster swag' magazine.

After the gods and kings expansion the game was good again and only continued to get better.

Did they remove 1 unit per tile? No? End of story, 90% of its problems stem from that.

You're calling it early then. None of those things are inherently bad. Streamlining doesn't have to mean loss of depth.

But it usually does. And their aim for getting "new" players that haven't played these types of games before is a gigantic red flag.

 

[rebelknight]

Why bother with this when i have this?
http://www.slitherine.com/games/PandoraPC

 

[K-64]

Did they remove 1 unit per tile? No? End of story, 90% of its problems stem from that.

So the problem with Civ V is the lack of Civ IV's problem?

 

[Mage246]

I used to be super excited about every new Civ game. Civ V really ruined that for me. I will admit that I haven't tried it with expansions as people have recommended. I plan to do that. But it was such a huge letdown and it took them so long to fix it that it really makes me believe that they no longer understand their fan base all that much. Or that at least they are willing to sacrifice a large chunk of their fanbase to appeal to new "casual" players.

 

[Orion]

Did they remove 1 unit per tile? No? End of story, 90% of its problems stem from that.

So the problem with Civ V is the lack of Civ IV's problem?

Right? That was one of the best changes, IMO. There was nothing more dull than watching 20+ units in a tile have a tug-o-war with another 20+ stack one tile over. Hexes and one unit per tile means positioning is more important than numbers now. It's no different from plenty of tabletop war games that have been using the same thing for years.

 

[Goker]

Did they remove 1 unit per tile? No? End of story, 90% of its problems stem from that.

Which are...?

 

[Kevlar]

After buying Civ V I couldn't even force myself to play through a campaign really. When gods and kings came out and I read good reviews I bought that and started to like the game again (steam says I have 185 hours apparently). Newest expansion is pretty good too and also includes the features of gods and kings (minus a civilization or two) so if you don't own any of the expansions just get that.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Give it another 10 years and XCOM 2012 will be the game held up on the pedestal and Game X will be baby's first puzzle game. And by the way, I thought Civilization Revolutions was pretty good for a console strategy.

Because games have been simplified even more by then?
That's the point, the game is a hollow shell of what it once was. Nostalgia or no, you can't deny that they "streamlined" the **** out of it. Whether or not you liked that is a different question.

And the original Civ V was suffering from that as well. Saying that it wasn't so is being wilfully daft.
Another great example - and one that curiously everyone agrees with, must be the EA effect - was and continues to be Rome 2.

I will definitely not deny that both XCOM 2012 and Civ V were streamlined, and I did in fact lament the loss of the base and world map mechanics of the original XCOM, but the game was good enough that I was more than willing to overlook that. Civ V I will also agree was streamlined, and in fact disappointed me on release just because it was bland it seemed. The new military system was great, however, and I think people are also forgetting that most of their memories of Civ IV were of Civ IV with mods or the expansion packs, so obviously Civ IV at the release of Civ V would obviously look more attractive. That being said, at this point I think Civ V has, for me, surpassed Civ IV.

 

[Do not look here]

Vanilla CivV was pretty disappointing, I've played one game in it and it was "meh" at best. Still, with 1 unit per tile limit, even in that playthrough I had immense fun with battles. I've given G&K a chance and could be hardly removed from my laptop since then
As I've said, CivV in many aspects feels like new kid on the block, instead of old getting new clothes. It didn't work out on all lines, but the fact that it wasn't fourth with new graphics was good enough for me. BNW still lies in wait in my future.

 

[Splintert]

BNW is bigger than Gods&Kings I believe, so you're in for another treat.

 

[Sir Prince]

Aaaaaand:

It's a tough balance to strike because we want to reach a new audience. We want to get to those XCOM fans who may not have played Civ because history wasn't their thing, or strategy gamers that are playing a lot of these strategy games on IOS, that haven't tried Civ before. We want to reach those people, so we're trying to make the game more accessible for them, but also catering to our hardcore fans. We think a lot about 'oooh, what would they think if we took this out and put this in'. We try to listen to that, but we really want this product to stand on its own, and we've taken some risks, and made some changes that are surprising I think to fans, but I really think that they'll like it. David and I are relatively young designers. This is our first big Civ product. We've worked in Civ a little bit. We've done our time on Civ stuff, but it's really a testament to Firaxis to trust us and let us take this chance and make this new thing.

http://m.pcgamer.com/2014/04/12/civilization-beyond-earth-interview-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-factions-aliens-technology-and-more/


I'm so out.
I mean that essentially says they don't want "me", so I don't see why I should try to like it.

Well there goes any hope of it being amazing.

You're calling it early then. None of those things are inherently bad. Streamlining doesn't have to mean loss of depth.

If I've learned anything from developer and publisher press releases/statements like this, it is almost always bad. Or at the very least not very good and disappointing.

 

[Jhessail]

Did they remove 1 unit per tile? No? End of story, 90% of its problems stem from that.

So the problem with Civ V is the lack of Civ IV's problem?

Right? That was one of the best changes, IMO. There was nothing more dull than watching 20+ units in a tile have a tug-o-war with another 20+ stack one tile over. Hexes and one unit per tile means positioning is more important than numbers now. It's no different from plenty of tabletop war games that have been using the same thing for years.

Guys, get real. Civ is not a war game, it's a grand strategy. You're running a nation, not a military campaign. The maps are far too small for operational level, and the mechanics aren't strong enough for it either. To remove stacks and limit each tile to housing 1 unit could work but only if you actually make maps massive enough that AI isn't ****ed AND you have the room to move around AND the units are cheap enough that you can have sufficient numbers of them.

But don't take my word for it, Sulla's analysis is very thorough:
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html

As a prominent member of Civ3 and Civ4 MP and modding communities, he got to participate in the testing phase of Beyond the Sword, and he definitely knows his stuff.

 

[Sir Prince]

Oh god that Will moron made an even stupider statement in the same article:

Will Miller: One good example of that is that, in my mind, there are two kinds of Civilization games. There's Civilization 4 and Civilization 5, then there's Civ Rev. Civ Rev is my favourite, it's the last Civ that Sid Meier himself has designed, that's in the Civ canon.

... Civ Rev is the weakest Civ title by miles.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Civ V I will also agree was streamlined, and in fact disappointed me on release just because it was bland it seemed. The new military system was great, however, and I think people are also forgetting that most of their memories of Civ IV were of Civ IV with mods or the expansion packs, so obviously Civ IV at the release of Civ V would obviously look more attractive. That being said, at this point I think Civ V has, for me, surpassed Civ IV.

I hold the one unit per tile thing in very high regard. That and hexagons are the reason why I actually keep going back to it.
Regarding your last sentence, I still prefer IV in many aspects - one of the most shallow one being the existence of big all-in-one packs like Fall from Heaven and RoM (<3 sooooooooooo much) and their assorted modmods - but the doom stacks and lack of hexagons simply prevents me from ever going back. The turn times on the other hand...

You're calling it early then. None of those things are inherently bad. Streamlining doesn't have to mean loss of depth.

If I've learned anything from developer and publisher press releases/statements like this, it is almost always bad. Or at the very least not very good and disappointing.

Indeed.
Call it pessimism all you want, Harkon, but the track record of games being completely gutted after statements like that is comfortably on my side.

That being said, again, I don't want to hate on this. I expect it to be utter ****, at the very least to me, seeing as I'm clearly not their target audience.
If I'm right about that, good. Hopefully a lot of folks learn a fair amount of pessimism from this and publishers are slowly forced to stop their short sighted policy of cash-ins and running **** into the ground until it brings no porfit any more. Which is a mere and unattainable wish, I know.
But if it's actually a good game then that'd be even better. Like I said, I love Alpha Centauri.

 

[Dryvus]

I raged fairly hard when I discovered there wasn't going to be a Fall from Heaven for Civ 5.