Character Models - Graphics and Visuals

[Talon68]

This is probably something on all of your minds.
Notice how when the characters move (at top speed) they look like they have something big and blunt rammed up their arses. Notice how the swinging actions of the weapons are in no way realistic, and take too long. I would go as far as to say that all the people in this game are both retarded, slow, weak and look like it as well. This is why I suggest a complete change of tempo in this game. To make it much better, models will have to be redone, characters do not need to look quite so SQUARE.
Animations can be improved, and adding a run key [ctrl] would add a lot of diversity in this game. I mean, have you ever seen anyone run so damned SLOWLY. And you can't go any faster. My friend weighs 19 stone and he can run a hell of a lot faster than any of these guys, and given the scale, in real life I can probably run almost if not just as fast as most of the horses in this game.
The models need to be more humnan looking, and need to act much faster. Currently, blocking is piss easy most of the time, with a sword, not a shield, because people pull out their swords in the direction they are going to attack and give you a good 4 minutes berth before actually gathering the courage to attack you. Make them move fast, make it quick and make it look like a human action, not some spasticated person.

Apologies to any who I may have offended, but you all know what I am saying. Maybe if Armagan had some sense or wanted to finish this game he would hire some modellers to make some good animated 3d characters for this game, rather than saying, "well there is only me doing it, so you can wait 3 months for some bug fixes and like it."
This game has potential, but I don't want to play it because every time there is a new realease it is a bug fix and somewhere like dhoraks keep getting a new closet up against the wall, and a new pair of gloves.
This game does rock, and is one of the most addictive RPGs I have played ina long time, but I'm getting so bored of it due to nothing new happening and my level 28 character being wiped so i can enjoy a new view somewhere and get a pair of gauntlets.

 

[ScottDoom]

I do agree that some of the sword swinging animations are a little stiff and could be a bit more smooth, but the movement speed is fine. People really couldn't run with a full suit of armor on. A full suit of armor could weigh up to 100lbs, and the swords were also very heavy hence the slow movements. This isn't Unreal Tournament where everyone moves at the speed of sound.

 

[Hunter]

It probably would be very much work too. changing so much...

 

[Seff]

I do agree that some of the sword swinging animations are a little stiff and could be a bit more smooth, but the movement speed is fine. People really couldn't run with a full suit of armor on. A full suit of armor could weigh up to 100lbs, and the swords were also very heavy hence the slow movements. This isn't Unreal Tournament where everyone moves at the speed of sound.

Armor only weighs 25kg, tops... I don't know exactly how much that is i lbs, but it ain't 100lbs
Also, any decent longsword weighs no more than 1½-2½ kg. Plus, the sword is balanced about 2 inches above the hilt, so it doesn't take a whole lot of muscle to swing it.

But ScootDoom is right, you wouldn't be sprinting all over the place, especially if you are busy holding your shield in place at the same time...

Oh, and calling one of the devs senceless isn't a good way to get your suggestion implementet

 

[Archonsod]

Armor only weighs 25kg, tops... I don't know exactly how much that is i lbs, but it ain't 100lbs
Also, any decent longsword weighs no more than 1½-2½ kg. Plus, the sword is balanced about 2 inches above the hilt, so it doesn't take a whole lot of muscle to swing it.

Interestingly enough, an early viking raid foundered when many of the troops died of heat exhaustion. The reason was that they'd ran from the beach to the battle site in full armour. England isn't known for its warm temperature, so this shows how little heat loss you have when in armour.

Also, Agility, Athletics and Riding all effect speed, and your armour + weapons can slow you down.

 

[robertthered]

Heat exhaustion was always a common problem for European knights and soldiers due to the heavy armour they wore. If you weren't mown down in the actual fighting there was heat exhaustion and suffocation to contend with, very common killers, and of course septicemia from infected flesh wounds afterwards.

I think the movement speed in the game is adequate, and realistically restrained. Running at full speed in battle would cause you to tired out much quicker. There's no sense wasting energy running when you may have hours and hours of battle ahead to slog through. Horses were the same. Unless you could change your horse several times over then charging around at full gallop would tire out your horse quickly, especially if you were both in heavy armour.

Also battlefields tended to get all muddy and churned up, further hampering movement all around. Archers sitting on hilltops tended to have a field day with bogged down troops.

However, a run button allowing you to make short sprints would be greatly appreciated in the game. After all, conserving energy is the last thing on your mind when you're about to be run down by a horse or four or five.

 

[Tarrak]

rather than saying, "well there is only me doing it, so you can wait 3 months for some bug fixes and like it."

Makes me wonder... How long have you followed the game?

Anyway, most of us could likely run faster, but could we run further? These guys have to be able to fight when they get there, it is no good if they are just that much more tired than their oponents, armour or no armour.
A duel (we can't pretend that the game gives us much more than a long series of duels) with shields is extremely exhausting. It is estimated that infantry tended to part after about 10-15 minutes (tops) for a rest, then went at it again. And remember that these guys didn't run about like we do now, they were in their nice little lines and pratically stood still where they were, stepping a little around but no sprinting until one side broke.

For instance the quite fit Celtic armies tended to run out of steam after a while, and the Romans pressed home that point. Mind you these guys were often not using armour (some were of course), while the Romans even from Republican days had armour of various kinds.

 

[Talon68]

Thats why I say have different kinds of armour affect your sprint. I have a set of chainmail and full-platemail armour, and I can run in them almost as easily as without. They both weigh a combined weight of around 30kg, and it doesn't make much difference to me, and I'm a geeky computer freak who spends most of his time on his computer. Think how little it would affect a seasoned, battle-hardened warrior. Also, I wouldn't call most of these things battles, I would call them skirmishes, as both teams have a very small amount of people.

Moving needs to look more like moving, try watching a person move and you may see what I mean

 

[robertthered]

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt there, but have you tried running around in it for twenty minutes or more over uneven terrain, dancing about with weaponry and not being able to stop as soon as you start to tire out?

Try that and see how hot you get, and how quickly your movements start to become sluggish as a result. Wring out your shirt afterwards and see exactly how many litres of sweat you've lost. Y'see, the weight isn't so much the problem, but the other side-effects. Heat and fluid loss will begin to severely wear down anyone, no matter how fit they are. And heavy, muscle-bound warriors produce even more body heat than someone of lesser stature.

No one with sense is going to waste their energy on running when they can jog and go for twice as long. I still think the movement speed in the game is fairly realistic. When your athletics and agility are really high you can move quite fast.

I do agree that the movements of the models could be more fluid and human-like though. Personally, I'd have the the movement of the mouse match the movement of your characters hands with the weapon responding according to some nifty momentum physics. It'd make the weapon control that much more real to the player. Moving without clicking would merely adjust stance and effect the direction you're looking in most. A swing would be left-click and drag, effecting the players view only slightly. Blocking would likewise be right-click and drag with the same slight effect on view. A thrust I supposed would be right and left click and drag at the same time.

 

[barbaros]

Animations can be improved, and adding a run key [ctrl] would add a lot of diversity in this game.

Yes. We should be able to sprint for relatively short distances like 15-20meters. But stamina should be implemented first to limit continuous sprinting.

Currently, blocking is piss easy most of the time, with a sword,...

Well, maybe I don't have your reflexes but blocking is hard against high level enemies. Its particularly difficult to block Xerina's lightning speed attacks for example. And its already difficult to block the attacks of multiple opponents. But I agree base attack speed should be increased a little.

well there is only me doing it, so you can wait 3 months for some bug fixes and like it.

Yes, last two updates (0.704 and 0.711) have included very little important new features. But Armagan have declared many times that he is working on module tools after 0.632. Very large amount time has went into those module tools and this has made me annoyed too. I think mod tools are finally finished at last after 0.711. So, we can expect new features faster. And I hope we will see good mods and this module tools worth the time spent into them.

Notice how when the characters move (at top speed) they look like they have something big and blunt rammed up their arses. Notice how the swinging actions of the weapons are in no way realistic, and take too long. I would go as far as to say that all the people in this game are both retarded, slow, weak and look like it as well.

Excuse me but why are you playing or played this game in the first place if you are criticising it so harshly (retarded??). Its like you are writing a review for a gaming magazine and preparing to give 20/100 points or like that. You demand very fundamental changes. It would take ages to make animations to your standards. Armagan can not/should not improve animations and graphics again and again and again... Game needs much more important things like story, group commands etc.

 

[McPa]

I would like fully realistic top-of-the-notch graphics, animations, models, physics, etc...

But the fact is, I still play X-Com, I still play Jagged Alliance 2, I play Hearts of Iron 2, I still play WWIIOL, the list goes on.

Good games don't need eye-candy to last forever, I'm not advocating I would play a text-based game, don't go to the extreme, I'm just saying that if the gameplay is so good, but SO GOOD! You can play it forever even when the technology advances and its graphics become severely outdated.

I would certainly like if M&B looked the best it could with the current technology, but I'll trade that for gameplay, so that I will continue to fire-up M&B 5 years from now (unless M&B 2/3/4/5 is released of course).

 

[Ryuta]

There's a huge discussion about the speed of combat.

I'd also love to see more fluid graphics, now they tend to move their arms only to attack (except overhead swing). It's would be nice if character move one step forward when they attack, as in real life.

Though, I found it's still better than the one in TES Oblivion. Their swings doesn't show any commitment (or momentum, or power).

 

[Talon68]

Firstly, yes, I have used my armour in combat, thats what its for
Me and one of my friends both puit on armour and have swordfights on a regular basis, and tiredness doesn't come into it for quite a time.

And I'm not talking about Eye-candy either. I will be the first person to tell you that actual graphical quality or depth in models (as in to say, the quality and style of those in games such as Doom3 or HL2) does not matter in a game. My favourite games to play right now are stronghold, Cave Story and Seiken Densetsu on my SNES.

All I mean by what I say is that the models look *laughable* and nothing like people. All it would take to make them better is make them a bit thinner, and look at some anatomy diagrams like every other modeller out there so you know what a person looks like, in case you have never had human contact outside glances at the mirror upon occasion.

It has nothing to do with eye candy, though I do think that pixel shaders in this game could be put to better use, other than the fade-in, fade-out shadows that one will occasionally experience.