character models and animations critiques

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johncage213

Recruit
this low poly model from total war attila looks better than the high quality detailed models in this game.why? because better proportions,cloth armor behaves like cloth armor, and the coif covers below the neck

lqqWFk1l.png


and the body is generally just more realistic. in this game, armor bloats you up, it looks like you're wearing a fat suit with foam halloween costume armor on top

total war honestly is a great example to aspire to, their artists are top notch. this just looks freaking amazing:

271tbhtlfiu01.png

also lol at the great looking shields compared to this game. that game also runs better with thousands of units, and their art assets are still better than mount and blade. absolutely pathetic
 

johncage213

Recruit
Since we're being all technicall, i believe that soilders, especially those of nobel birth would be required to stand in a dignified manner rather than a natural, and relaxed one in front of their commander and especially a king. Even today in our military if a outranking officer enters the mess hall you stop eating and stand at attention, until told otherwise. Now, in battle, widing your legs lowers your center of gravity and provides leverage. This allows you to withstand forces exponentially higher than you could standing up straight.

@johncage213 i very seriously doubt we will be seeing any signifigant model changes. It's not like the game just needs to be polished and balanced, after a decade. Most core gameplay mechanics are either missing or not functioning. Models for some cities, like those of the aressai, arent even complete yet. Only a few battle fields are complete. I hear people saying it will be in EA for a year. If the rate of development of this game is any indication- this game can NOT be feature complete in a year. I am under the influence that they had to release the game for finacial reasons. It obviously is far from ready for release.

lol keep making excuses for these ****ty ass animations. "muh noblemen stance" is that like the medieval version of the tori power stance?
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
You're the only one here that has a problem with the animations and assets. Give it up already. Of all the issues facing the game at this point, animations are waaaaay down the priority list.
 

anton97

Sergeant at Arms
WF&SWBNWM&B
also lol at the great looking shields compared to this game. that game also runs better with thousands of units, and their art assets are still better than mount and blade. absolutely pathetic
I agree that the overall character proportions and shield art look better. That said, comparing an RTS that plays random combat animations and handles AI on a group level to M&B which handles it at an individual level is a pretty weak and floppy attempt at scoring some "muh bannerlord bad" points. Comparing it to a game like Kingdom Come: Deliverance which works similarly(ish) would make more sense.

Criticism is good and needed, but your salt is shining through it. Might want to take a break, cry, scream into your pillow and come back later when you're able to put together a sentence without sounding like a child having a tantrum lmao
 
this low poly model from total war attila looks better than the high quality detailed models in this game.why? because better proportions,cloth armor behaves like cloth armor, and the coif covers below the neck

lqqWFk1l.png


and the body is generally just more realistic. in this game, armor bloats you up, it looks like you're wearing a fat suit with foam halloween costume armor on top

total war honestly is a great example to aspire to, their artists are top notch. this just looks freaking amazing:

271tbhtlfiu01.png
True
 
lmao this thread is pure gold, OP must be either a very untalented troll or have a deep victim complex

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uRRqnD4.png

OP's critique of how unrealistic coifs are in the game:
large gap between the body and the neck that anyone can stab through.
 
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By the way the neck protection is small because player character is modular in this game, not static like in total war. Because total war doesn't really need procedural animation it is very easy for them to make this type of coif.
If you make such a big coif in bannerlord, it will clip into armors and some shoulder protection gear (like bear fur), so it would require cloth simulation to look decent. Even with cloth simulation it wouldn't probably work that great and your puny pc might not handle coifs of every man nearby in battle.
I will not explain in more detail since you wouldn't even understand why modular character models and interaction between them makes it hard to animate properly.

If you take a look at KCD, which i believe is mentioned both in this thread and on forums, you will notice how coifs are firstly not that big like you showed in OP, and secondly they CLIP all the time, especially when characters are actually rotating their heads. Just google something like "KCD coifs", and clipping is on every 2nd or 3rd pic. Personally, visible armor clipping breaks immersion much more than little coifs. Also different layers of armor are hovering over each other.
 
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fedeita

Marquis
No, the neck protection is small because they kept the old model structure of warband, like the sectioned legs at the knee that you can't find in any other game.
 
No, the neck protection is small because they kept the old model structure of warband, like the sectioned legs at the knee that you can't find in any other game.
Thanks, corrected my point, i lost my thought in the middle of writing first sentence. By the way i think the problem might be handled by adding 1 additional module to a character for neck protection, though making a seemless transition between that and head module gonna be hard to address anyway.
 

johncage213

Recruit
No, the neck protection is small because they kept the old model structure of warband, like the sectioned legs at the knee that you can't find in any other game.

yeah like wtf still with that 2005 era tech

even some warband mods added complete leg models for the trousers. just wtf are the devs doing/thinking?

keep in mind these issues were brought up back then too(the sectioned legs, inability to have weighed bones for the coif), now they do have the weighing technology available and they're using it for everything, but the sections legs are still there and they didn't update how the coif/helmet aventail system works.
 

johncage213

Recruit
Thanks, corrected my point, i lost my thought in the middle of writing first sentence. By the way i think the problem might be handled by adding 1 additional module to a character for neck protection, though making a seemless transition between that and head module gonna be hard to address anyway.

no other game has this issue with neck protection. bannerlord...
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meanwhile every other game:
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i think fedeita hit it on the head. they're working with updated technology but the same old mindsets. adhering to rules and limitations that no longer exist. i guess that's one reason bannerlord felt so underwhelming to me and a lot of other people, they didn't make use of modern technology, they made a game that has all the pbr and shader fanciness with 2k and 4k textures, but they animated it like a 2007 game, and the combat mechanics and gameplay is directly ported from 2005 with almost no improvement.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
i think fedeita hit it on the head. they're working with updated technology but the same old mindsets. adhering to rules and limitations that no longer exist. i guess that's one reason bannerlord felt so underwhelming to me and a lot of other people, they didn't make use of modern technology, they made a game that has all the pbr and shader fanciness with 2k and 4k textures, but they animated it like a 2007 game, and the combat mechanics and gameplay is directly ported from 2005 with almost no improvement.

I can relate to this. I feel that insisting on wanting to develop their own game engine wasn't necessarily a good idea (and I would say it seldom is these days).
 

bigbalzzz

Regular
hi, i played mount and blade and warband and modded for those games throughout so i'm familiar with this franchise and the engine, however some time ago i simply abandoned warband because of all the issues it had regarding the character model and animation limitations and that it became very outdated especially with games like kingdom come deliverance raising the standard. now that bannerlord has come out i'm disappointed to say that they made almost no improvements to the character animations.the model details and poly count is higher, but the skeletons, combat animation, etc are almost unchanged. this is unexpected considering the game was in development for half a decade if not more. imho it seems most of the work went into the campaign gameplay rather than improving the actual combat mechanics and animations/visual feedback.

i'm not sure if you still plan to revise the skeleton and animations, from what i can see it's still the same from warband, the players even have the same silly exaggerated wide legged combat stance when outside of combat. i really do hope you look to improve the character animations it will also improve visual feedback during combat too.

below is an example of the outdated, unnatural and exaggerated nature of the animations and how i they can be fixed by replicating human movement and anatomy proportions more closely. first image is in game,second image is after my fix. try standing still just naturally, your legs should be wither under or slightly narrower than shoulder width, it's very unnatural to stand wider that shoulder width. that's not how natural movement looks like

furthermore, the character armors all look like cardboard or foam props because of how thick and far away they are from the body. even cloth armor like surcoats look like they're floating half an inch from the surface of the body. it makes every character looks like they're obese or stuffing themselves with cotton underneath their clothes

also, i can't believe they're still using the same armor system where the head and the body are completely separate, when fans have been telling them for years that hauberks have hood attachments and those that don't, the hood still needs to cover the shoulders,you can't have a helmet with a cloth or mail coif tcovering only the neck, that just leaves a large gap between the body and the neck that anyone can stab through.

so all of that helmets with cloth and mail coif attachments going to need to have the coif extend all the way to the shoulders, or just slightly short of the shoulders. which brings up another thing, the mail coif in this game is attached to the helmet, that's ok, but it doesn't cover the neck at all, it looks like the back of a wimple. that's again, not how it should look.

before:
wCdk3k5.jpg


after:
PqooPkC.jpg
i think you ve it backward i spread my legs while doing nothing
but closing your legs together is called military stance not the other way around
 

johncage213

Recruit
the character models are objectively worse than this old strategy game with low poly models

BEFA0F0B149F03643724DD6999BA9EF3E96CA2F5


i think it calls for improvement, not burying heads in sand and saying "eh its fine". why settle for less when it's easy to make it better?
 

Krynn72

Recruit
I thought the guy complaining about the belching sound effect in the taverns was an absurd nitpick given the state of the rest of the game and how its in early access. Complaining that an idle animation's legs are an inch too spread out is even worse. What a ****ing world we live in where people have the time to criticize this kind of ****.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
Except from the goofy faces, the animations look great to me. But it should all be moldable, so work on some improved animations if they bother you so much.

The knock-out/death animations, are actually very high quality, to the point where people aware of these things can actually understand they put a lot of effort to it. ... I wish all the rest of the animation had the same high quality... like, I know the franchise wants to keep combat simple and intuitive, but I really wish there were more depictions into weapons combat.. especially now that there are a lot of HEMA sources to consult... a LOT more than back in 2007~8.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
the character models are objectively worse than this old strategy game with low poly models

BEFA0F0B149F03643724DD6999BA9EF3E96CA2F5


i think it calls for improvement, not burying heads in sand and saying "eh its fine". why settle for less when it's easy to make it better?

Thrones of Britannia is a 2018 game.

"Old strategy game with low polygon count" my arse.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
Not to mention, that's not even the default model/textures. That's a modded texture from Steam Workshop for higher quality. The original game texture of same soldiers look like this:

7A7BBB407F5ACA22AA7362B89C5BB9844697D8E0


Wow gee. Suddenly it doesn't look one-sidedly superior to Bannerlords' infantry lines, does it.

See, I really don't want to play the part of the fanboi, but so long as this kind of narrative is pushed around to dis the devs, based on f**kery and deception like this, it really doesn't leave me with a choice, does it?

Criticize the game on due evidence and correct points, not with friggin' fakery and bullshi* narratives.

(ps) I will also add that the mod author -- who has done nothing wrong, to be clear -- took the picture of the "Normans After (modding)" at a different time of battle, different angle to present the mod work to look far superior to the original textures. Better lighting condition with lower hanging sun, quarterview of soldiers so their same armors look less "cloney," and presenting a lot of shield patterns to look prettier with custom crafted textures. This is all fair "tricks of the trade" self-PR for the modders.

But when someone just takes pics like this out of that context and pretends it's from "an old game with low poly count," it's total f**kery trying to trick people to form negative opinion based on falsified evidence.

THAT IS BULL****TERY.
 
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