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character models and animations critiques

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h1zchan

Sergeant
how you imagine that, should he duck in combat? Have you ever been standing in moving bus or train? Spreading legs apart a little bit does improve your stability significantly. If you have to do it all the time on drills and battles you might get used to do it.
No. Just bend your legs more. Watch how people stand in longsword and sabre tornaments. But imo the current animations aren't necessarily immersion breaking during combat.

The issue op mentioned does become prominent when you're in towns and villages. You shouldn't be standing in combat stance with one leg behind the other when you're not in combat. It's immersions breaking. Combat stance should only trigger when you draw your weapons. I guess the devs' argument is that even with all weapons sheathed your fists are still always 'drawn'.. but I'd argue fists should act like weapon too. Only when you click the mouse buttons should you switch to combat stance. Pressing the sheath weapon button should revert you to relaxed idle standing stance with legs close together and this should be the default animation when you enter a scene.
 
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Shaggy_711

Recruit
Yeah... In combat your feet are going to be spread pretty far apart. I think the animations now are pretty good. Especially the horse animations, those are fantastic. Though some of the armor models do seem a bit large. In particular one of the Vlandian mail armor and the top tier Vlandian mail, that has the leather jacket over it, is ginormous.
 
Just bend your legs more. Watch how people stand in longsword and sabre tornaments.
They do spread their legs AND also bend their legs.
However duel tournaments are about dancing around opponent, retreating and attacking fast, this does not apply to fighting in formation. Giving up your position in formation means possible death to your neighbor soldiers so you have to hold ground steadily.

Good point about civilians though.
 

johncage213

Recruit
Hello johncage it's always a pleasure to see old dear friends! yes, as you I was expecting more progresses but overall I like how the humans move in bannerlord, I find them much better than KCD.
That pose in the first pic is exagerrated but nothing not human or totally innatural, look at this:


almost everyone use a pose with closer legs but someone have more a combat stance with wider legs.
For the rest I'm with you, seeing again upper part of the legs attached to the armour is bad, like the splitted aventails.

i have no problem with wide stances, in battle, but you'll notice even in the pic you posted, not everyone is standing like that. some have narrow stances, in fact bottom pic most are standing under shoulder width apart. a very big and wide person may have wider stances, but most people will not stand naturally with legs way out to the side.
 

h1zchan

Sergeant
They do spread their legs AND also bend their legs.
However duel tournaments are about dancing around opponent, retreating and attacking fast, this does not apply to fighting in formation. Giving up your position in formation means possible death to your neighbor soldiers so you have to hold ground steadily.

Good point about civilians though.

Military sabre manuals were written with military formation fighting in mind. That's why you don't see much stepping offline in military sabre tournaments and this tradition was in turn carried into modern sports sabre fencing. You do need a bit of room for backtracking even in formation fighting, because a lot of the times a good parry has to be done in conjunction with a small step back.

That's why I don't believe infantry fighting formations were as tight as many believe. The front row at least needs to step forward by a good long step from the rest of the formation to give themselves room to maneuver. This also means a winning team can in theory advance so quickly that the front row of the opposing team runs outof retreat room and trip over their rear ranks. This is at least probably how the early empire romans fought. Spear phalanxes are probably tighter to allow rear rank to engage with the over the shoulder thrust but even then you still have to make sure the front row doesn't accidentally stab the rear rank with the tail end of their spears. But perhaps that's why the the hoplites on greek vase paintings were depicted to be holding their spears overhead in icepick grip.
 

duchuy613

Veteran
Actually no. No one would ever stand up straight with legs paralleled like the posture you made. It just looks unnatural. The original posture of standing with the weight shifted on one leg while the other leg relaxed is much more natural. I don't know anyone who would prefer to stand like the second pic naturally.
 

johncage213

Recruit
that's the inventory screen showing a completely out of combat stance. unless the character is actually engaged in combat, they should never have a wide stance. it' so stupid to see the player in the combat ready stance while walking around in towns and in castle halls.

also, when the army is marching, they should have a non combative stance as well.
 

duchuy613

Veteran
that's the inventory screen showing a completely out of combat stance. unless the character is actually engaged in combat, they should never have a wide stance. it' so stupid to see the player in the combat ready stance while walking around in towns and in castle halls.

also, when the army is marching, they should have a non combative stance as well.
It's not a combat stance. It's a relaxed stance. Like this. No one ever stand like you described on the second pic, it's rigid.
IhbF5db.png
 

Yangbang

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
Besides everyone bashing the second pose you made, which I think looks fine. The problem that @johncage213 is highlighting is that the devs just carried over a lot of old character assets of warband to bannerlord. And tho that's reasonable to a degree. Its also a sham because its basic and bring zero innovation to their new game. I'm disappointed to see so much similarities in this new 2020 game.

I would also like to add that standing with you legs wide apart like your about to straddle something looks really dumb and nobody stands like that naturally. Its a ready stance, like your "getting ready" to do something. Its not a normal like, "hi nice to meet you" stance. Just go try to have a conversation with someone and put your feet past your shoulders. It'll look like you got a wedgie or your balls are chafing.
 

anton97

Sergeant at Arms
WF&SWBNWM&B
The second picture looks like your younger brother caught with his hand in the cookie jar. If it´s between the two, I´d rather keep the old exaggerated stance lmao
 

johncage213

Recruit
It's not a combat stance. It's a relaxed stance. Like this. No one ever stand like you described on the second pic, it's rigid.
IhbF5db.png

no ****, it's a morph from the first pic, obviously it's not going to be perfect. but look at the heel placement in the picture you provided. that's shoulder width apart.not wider than shoulder width. no one stands like that while relaxed
 

johncage213

Recruit
The second picture looks like your younger brother caught with his hand in the cookie jar. If it´s between the two, I´d rather keep the old exaggerated stance lmao

facepalm*

it's only meant to serve as a comparison to point out the issue with the unnatural width and exaggerated animations. it looks cartoonish and undermines the semi realistic style they're going for, i spent 15 seconds on it using the liquify tool.
 

johncage213

Recruit
Besides everyone bashing the second pose you made, which I think looks fine. The problem that @johncage213 is highlighting is that the devs just carried over a lot of old character assets of warband to bannerlord. And tho that's reasonable to a degree. Its also a sham because its basic and bring zero innovation to their new game. I'm disappointed to see so much similarities in this new 2020 game.

I would also like to add that standing with you legs wide apart like your about to straddle something looks really dumb and nobody stands like that naturally. Its a ready stance, like your "getting ready" to do something. Its not a normal like, "hi nice to meet you" stance. Just go try to have a conversation with someone and put your feet past your shoulders. It'll look like you got a wedgie or your balls are chafing.

yes this among other things is what i'm trying to point out while everyone is autismally focused on the minutea of my illustration just lol. agreed about the near copy pasting, even if the animaitons are new, it seems like a lot of it are copies of the old outdated and terrible looking animations. don't just copy them, improve on them!
 

SmattlePattle

Sergeant
I think you overshot the mark with your correction but your general point stands.
I also do hope they finesse things over time. I can be content with it for now but it'd be nice to see things like this polished for the end of EA.
 
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