Character and Companions Design and Progress

[Nikomakkos]

This probably doesn't apply to everyone but one of the things I most enjoy in games is designing a character and/or team, doing some light "theorycrafting" and picking out the options that I best like and so forth. Plan it all, design it and then go and reap the fruits of my labour. And I think I don't belong to a minority since so many games have this design.

Warband did this wonderfully. How you would design your own character went completely hand in hand with how you could make up your team of companions, what you could outsource to them etc. And then you had to balance their infighting so you really had to give it some thought how to design your team. It felt incredibly rewarding to me seeing my companions grow into the carefully designed masteries I had planned for them. And of course my own character as well.

Bannerlord seems to have completely removed that aspect entirely. Unless this is still something they mean to get around to and change, all you have is randomly generated companions that you won't be able to grow and develop hardly at all. And doesn't it feel like almost every single time that you hire one and you go look at his character sheet that it's just "oh my frickin God what a horrible, horrible abomination!". I remember when I think "Bitterdraught" and "the Prince" and some new ones were first released and I happened upon one lowish level Bitterdraught that had yet to assign any of his focus points. I nearly jumped with joy, I'm sure I even engaged my vocal chords alone in my room I was so excited to get to design him myself. It was awesome. But it turned out it was a bug. The thing that finally made me enjoy my gaming session was a bug, not a feature.

That's just the companions but also the player character himself seems to have issues. I'm not sure about this since I haven't gotten far enough into a game yet (the game is not at the stage yet where it can hold me for even half a campaign). But to me it feels incredibly hard to design my character. The starting choices drive me into insanity, nearly, trying to play whack-a-mole with picking the options that have the least downsides. Back in early April, applying the Focus Points when the PC levelled up also felt like whack-a-mole since you were just trying to see where there was no or almost no room for more improvement in a skill (which would have slowed your levelling down) and putting the point there. Honestly it's a horrible system, or maybe I just don't know how to work it? I'm not sure it's changed since April, I've only played a tiny bit recently.

I'd love it if TW could try to bring back some of this that they did so well with Warband. Character development and progress (whether PC or NPC) is a very important feature, I would even say a key feature of game design. Please bring it back. The sooner the better.

 

[Nikomakkos]

I have to wonder what the lack of response to this means. Does it mean that other people don't share this feeling? Does it just mean that this is not such that it would start discussion, being sort of complete in its simple message? Why is nobody engaging with this? Am I alone here in feeling this is an important issue?

 

[RectalRanger]

I agree with you, companions have devolved for me to the point that their only purpose is to hold troops. If upon hire their attributes were fixed but all their focus was unassigned, and same with perks. So you'd need to track down someone with the skills you want, but still be able fine tune them for what you want.

 

[Old-Bull]

Do companions still look like the tragic result of inbreeding the ugliest siblings on earth?

 

[stevehoos]

So far companions are only good for caravans and to use in armies really. They are generic copies, once you play the game through a few times, you find they are all the same with the same stats. Such and such of the Hills, there's the one with 120 scouting etc. It's really boring and bland honestly. I can't tell the difference between any of them in battles either, none at all. 5 years in game in your companion levels up two lol...TW got cute with this and it is not as good as WB.

 

[black_bulldog]

So far companions are only good for caravans and to use in armies really. They are generic copies, once you play the game through a few times, you find they are all the same with the same stats. Such and such of the Hills, there's the one with 120 scouting etc. It's really boring and bland honestly. I can't tell the difference between any of them in battles either, none at all. 5 years in game in your companion levels up two lol...TW got cute with this and it is not as good as WB.

Imho companions need to be redone at some point. They're not only bland, but they level incredibly slowly, they have terrible spread of skills and perks and have too many red skills. I just look for the lowest level ones I can find with some kind of decent spread on skills and level them up the way I want. Personally I'd rather they were lower level and leveled much faster. Why TW thought making generic companions was the way to go I can't understand.

 

[DeathKnightRZ]

The biggest issue I see is there's designing a character for combat but being garbage as a commander in the field/no way to level any of the good skills for campaigning and vice versa until you hit a level up from getting xp from any active/passive skill xp since they changed how level ups work in 1.4.3. Tactics/Medicine is invaluable as autocalc is great to train companions (Making sure to have the weapon they have is the only one you gave them to level it in autocalc i.e. a spear for polearm) + medicine experience is better from healing them over normal troops. Steward has been made god tier with it's final perk thou it only affects your party and not settlements so investing in it is good plus it levels automatically and still gives xp even at max learning limit.

There is a gripe I do have with perks you get along the way is like this, the amount of Party Leader/Role perks makes it so it wants you to be the one to spec into it as you want to have the most buffs possible or at least that's how I play. You can quite literally make a character specced for autocalcing thou by only using CNG, SOC and INT skills since the end tactic perk is really OP. Scouting is the end all, be all skill for leveling for you as the Party leader. As a test, I made my scouting 300 and perked out to maximize sight distance during day. I leveled up from 1 to 5 or so after a going from Sargot to Myleza* cause of all the tracks. This type of gameplay ruins the experience as it makes the companions just soldiers of your army rather than being in a Role assisting you as you can do everything yourself and since you are the party leader, you get even more benefits. /Companion needs to come back as a perk thingy.

About Companions : In my honest opinion, the only point in Companions is to have them as captains when you are soloing as they are the only way to get the captain buffs for your troops. Governor role is pointless as it takes up a precious companion slot unless using family if you play for 20+ years and not to mention the culture matters which in the next patch will make revolts a thing iirc so you must pick a companion who to be governor for your new castle/town that matches. The diversity of companions is terrible too. The Golden and The Swordsman are practically the best choices and having a good archer/crossbow user as their skills are high but the issue with them is that the two former are only Aserai. I'd say that companions need to be unique again and lower level 1-4 and have stories related to their skills they do have. Plus have a Foreign culture for some of them as it makes sense that there should be such characters as your character in Warband was a Foreigner originally which adds more lore to the backstories for the companions too.

I agree they need a companion overhaul and there needs to be more roles for them such as Trader(Trade)/Gaoler(Roguery)/Tactician(Tactics)/Diplomat(Charm) plus a limit increase potentially of maybe 2 per clan tier but only 2 at start of the game.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Agreed, I like to plan my Char and try to perfect the art of leader crafting in warband, but in BL there's just no 'builds' because so many skills just don't level efficiently and the' level up -> global skill learning slow down' means you're going to have a hard time raising any slow skills unless you refrain from combat completely since you will level up from combat even if you put no FP in the skills.....

In warband I make female INT/STR monster that has 14 surgery/14 engineer and 10 trainer at level 13 and has max power draw near endgame.
In Bannerlord all I can do is have high riding and bow, any other skills fizzle out long before the game ends.

As far as companions, yeah it sucks.
In my new game I have 7 of these Xdressing zero skills (beside being stunning and brave) 65yo deformed men "two handed sword" wanderers

I have zero healer wanderers, zero engineers , highest scout was just 100....

I read somebody in a recent thread say they thing these messed up wanderers don't count for the max spawns of wanderer's.... I don't know but I feel it's a bad coincidence that I have so many of them and so few of other choices and think maybe they do eat up slots.

 

[Nikomakkos]

I foresee mods completely overhauling the entire character system. Unless TW does it first.

 

[stevehoos]

Agreed, I like to plan my Char and try to perfect the art of leader crafting in warband, but in BL there's just no 'builds' because so many skills just don't level efficiently and the' level up -> global skill learning slow down' means you're going to have a hard time raising any slow skills unless you refrain from combat completely since you will level up from combat even if you put no FP in the skills.....

In warband I make female INT/STR monster that has 14 surgery/14 engineer and 10 trainer at level 13 and has max power draw near endgame.
In Bannerlord all I can do is have high riding and bow, any other skills fizzle out long before the game ends.

As far as companions, yeah it sucks.
In my new game I have 7 of these Xdressing zero skills (beside being stunning and brave) 65yo deformed men "two handed sword" wanderers

I have zero healer wanderers, zero engineers , highest scout was just 100....

I read somebody in a recent thread say they thing these messed up wanderers don't count for the max spawns of wanderer's.... I don't know but I feel it's a bad coincidence that I have so many of them and so few of other choices and think maybe they do eat up slots.

I had 7 in my game, there were no longer any suitable companions, I only allow men as warriors.

 

[Apocal]

Governor role is pointless as it takes up a precious companion slot unless using family if you play for 20+ years and not to mention the culture matters which in the next patch will make revolts a thing iirc so you must pick a companion who to be governor for your new castle/town that matches.

Governor role is, if anything, the best right now. There are lots of perks in combat skills that do things like 5% or 20% reduction in garrison wages, increased prosperity gains and increased militia recruitment per day (huge buff). There is even a 50% wage perk for castle garrisons.

In comparison party leaders spend most of their time either in someone else's army (fine, it gives influence) or doing dumb **** on their own, like raiding villages you're trying to take control over. As combat companions their impact is very limited, with the exception of Fian-style builds, and quite dangerous, particularly in sieges. Whether that is the result of AI issues, the increased scale, ineffectiveness of armor, etc. I don't know. But your companions are only rarely supreme the way they were in late-game Warband.

Caravans are fine but situational. Mine usually make back way more than I put into them but other people get ****ed by RNG.

So yeah, governors -- especially in towns -- are definitely good and probably the best value right now.

 

[Old-Bull]

Imho companions need to be redone at some point. They're not only bland, but they level incredibly slowly, they have terrible spread of skills and perks and have too many red skills. I just look for the lowest level ones I can find with some kind of decent spread on skills and level them up the way I want. Personally I'd rather they were lower level and leveled much faster. Why TW thought making generic companions was the way to go I can't understand.

^^^^^^^

Yep. That's what I do as well. I actually look at a few factors when choosing companions: level(lower the better), attributes that relate to the job I want them to perform(this is harder to find then it should be, I found an engineer today with 9 vigor and 1 intelligence that somehow had 80 in engineering), and wasted skill points(usually a companion has from 4 to 11 skill points in things they aren't going to use). Potential is the key.

Building good companions is a hell of a lot easier than finding good companions. I take engineers and make them my stewards in the early game to create governors that have both engineering and stewardship. I usually find someone with a good bow skill plus corresponding attribute and make them my scout early game(creating a commander for my archers that can eventually run a party).

Hopefully by launch they'll come up with a system that eliminates all the wasted skill points and attributes so you can use the mid-high level companions. That needs to happen but so does creating green companions or apprentices that start at level 1 and allow you to build them as you please.

 

[sniparsexe]

So far companions are only good for caravans and to use in armies really. They are generic copies, once you play the game through a few times, you find they are all the same with the same stats. Such and such of the Hills, there's the one with 120 scouting etc. It's really boring and bland honestly. I can't tell the difference between any of them in battles either, none at all. 5 years in game in your companion levels up two lol...TW got cute with this and it is not as good as WB.

Unfortunately, this is true. How many of you guys remember Bannerlord companions, I literally don't remember one. I remember all Warband companions though, they were great and felt like actual companions instead of feeling like a normal troop.

edit, wait I remember "with two-handed sword" ones

 

[echoco]

My favorite companion in Warband was Yimira. I liked watching her grow and skills develop. In Bannerlord Yimira is replaced in a way by your siblings but without mods you'll have to wait 4-5 years before they turn 18.

My current favorite way to get companions is the "Find Daughter" quests. Recruiting those companions gives a blank companion that I cane do the same in. Two issues though, they are absolute blanks with no attributes so leveling is too difficult without mods to add attributes to them. The other issue is I can't get male companions that way.