Changes to kicks?

[Harn]

I'd like to see an end to kicks parrying attacks; this has been reduced, but not eliminated. I'd also like to see the kicker be knocked down if hit while kicking, and a ~3 second cool down that starts after a kick animation finishes.

If kicking properly makes the kicker vulnerable enough, I'd hold off on changing the power of the kick & stun itself until it can be properly tested to see if that as well would need to be changed.

New thought: When kicking a person with a raised shield it should only result in a short interrupt that stops movement (1/2 of normal duration), cause no knockback and do no damage.

This would put an end to people being kicked off of ladders and (largely) stop two handers from one shotting people with kick-swings.

 

[Reapy]

You know... I was just thinking.... maybe the trick to 'fixing' kick is to make the animation last longer.  One of my biggest gripes about it is the almost free hit after a kick. Taking that out somehow would be great and make kick more of a 'get away' rather then 'die if you get too close' like it is now. 

So the ways to take out the free hit I thought of would be either block anytime during kick stun animation, or the Kick sends the recipient of kick farther away so that they recover before they can be attacked.

But maybe another way is to simple lengthen the kick animation and send the stuned guy out a little more. One of my pet peeves with kick is ALSO that you are not really vulnerable when you do it. There really is no disadvantage to trying for a kick in a 'sensible' time. If you are in range to connect with the kick, great, you win. If you are not in range, you can still block fully during the entire kick animation and be completely safe, nothing lost.  There is a weird moment if you try to block right as you start a kick that you are vulnerable, but if you block before kicking, you are fine.

So really I would like to be able to punish someone who misses a kick in some way. I don't want a missed kick to be a 100% free hit for the person kicking, but I would like for it to make them very vunerable. So if they kick and JUUUST miss, there would be enough time for that person to close in and swing to hit, but if they kick a bit farther out, you couldn't close to hit right away.  The longer animation would also make it hard to attack right after a kick, so there is no longer a free hit at the end of it either.

I think that might do some wonders for kick, even on a ladder, because you could step back and force a missed kick then move up the ladder past them and/or hit them if they don't have friends around.

 

[okiN]

New thought: When kicking a person with a raised shield it should only result in a short interrupt that stops movement (1/2 of normal duration), cause no knockback and do no damage.

This would put an end to people being kicked off of ladders and (largely) stop two handers from one shotting people with kick-swings.

But again, doesn't that make them sort of pointless to have in the first place? I do appreciate that the kick is a useful feature to have, and there needs to be some way to defeat turtlers and facehuggers. I just think it goes too far beyond that functionality now. You're talking about completely castrating the kick action.

You know... I was just thinking.... maybe the trick to 'fixing' kick is to make the animation last longer.

Only if they fix the bug of the "lingering kick", where you can walk into it long after the actual kick anim has played out. Anyway, slowing down the kicker's recovery from the kick is what the third poll option is for.

Also, what exactly do you mean? Do you want to make the whole animation last longer, both before and after the kick connects?

 

[Seawied86]

only change that needs to be made is the kick chamber block which is still there

 

[Crazed Rabbit]

Kicking needs to be changed, and by changed I mean nerfed. 

Right now, you can kick someone and slash them before they recover.  When you're playing a good player who knows how to use the kicking system, fighting becomes simply stupid.  Blocking incoming swings with your weapon becomes only as important as avoiding the illogical super kicks.

I thought kick was supposed to be for two handed weapon users to prevent facehugging by enemies.  All kick needs then is to stop the forward movement of enemies temporarily.  And only very temporarily, since backpedaling speed is really high right now.

It doesn't need to stun them, it doesn't need to block attacks.  It doesn't need to break through shields.  It doesn't need to work at maximum efficiency throughout the whole animation.  It doesn't need to work while you're reloading.  Because of great effectiveness of kicking, it is used mainly outside of what it was intended for.  It doesn't need to keep you completely invulnerable while you kick.

That really doesn't make any sense.  To prime/chamber/ready a melee weapon, you have to lower your shield and render yourself vulnerable.  But with the kick, even though the kick is almost instantaneous and there's no footwork preparation needed and you're standing on one foot while kicking awkwardly, you can keep your shield up the whole time.

Also, I was playing some Hunt mod earlier and it seemed like a person would start to kick, then I would slash them (with the server registering the hit and playing the sound), then I got kicked.  Is it possible that kicks don't get interrupted?  I was at 200 ping.

If this isn't changed, more and more people are going to realize the power of kicking and more and more people are going to use it, until Mount & Blade becomes Kick & Slash.

To fulfill its purpose, kick only needs to stop forward movement of the player being kicked - not stun, not damage them.  For balance's sake the kicker must be more vulnerable.

CR

 

[FrisianDude]

The kicker IS more vulnerable if the kick misses, and it often does.

And consider the amount of people that have been kicked to death IRL it would not make sense if kick didn't do damage.

I do think that it should take just a bit longer for someone who just kicked to swing. Keeping a weapon chambered while kicking seems okay though, but it'd be nice if kickers'd lose balance if they swing too soon after a kick. Or kick too soon after a swing. Or do a spinjump.

 

[Reapy]

Guess I should actually read the polls 

Option 3 + 5 then.  You can kick just as fast now and interrupt and everything like normal, except yeah your foot will linger out there a touch longer or takes a bit coming down. Maybe even a slightly longer wind up time before impact so you have to be somewhat decisive with it (though timing now is decent enough).

But basically right now if someone kicks and you anticipate it and step back so they hit air, you still can't hurt them. They can block fully into the animation and in any event they recover from the kick and are mobile again before you can close in and do anything about it. Right now you need 'risky' timing to punish, like you swing at the same time they kick after you've stepped out of the way and sort of gamble that they are going to kick.

So this way you would have a bit more time to come back in and swing at them while they just missed the kick. At the same time, I don't want it so long that if you do kick a person and land, they come back and hit you before you've recovered. The person kicked should definitely not be able to attack before the kicker.

I mean ideally kick would be nice if it was counterable. Meaning it had a wind up time a bit so you could see it coming (instead of guessing) and react to it somehow, though, not so slow that you can just back up trivially every time. Eh, kick is sort of this floating thing out there in terms of the 'melee system'. I guess right now its place should just be range control that is punishable on a miss.

At the very least I would really like to see the free hit after a kick go away in some way. I can live without punishing kick

 

[inox_ionizer]

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Strongly agree. Kick is plain ridicilous as it is now.

 

[CMarshall]

隐藏

Insert Quote
Kicking needs to be changed, and by changed I mean nerfed.

Right now, you can kick someone and slash them before they recover.  When you're playing a good player who knows how to use the kicking system, fighting becomes simply stupid.  Blocking incoming swings with your weapon becomes only as important as avoiding the illogical super kicks.

I thought kick was supposed to be for two handed weapon users to prevent facehugging by enemies.  All kick needs then is to stop the forward movement of enemies temporarily.  And only very temporarily, since backpedaling speed is really high right now.

It doesn't need to stun them, it doesn't need to block attacks.  It doesn't need to break through shields.  It doesn't need to work at maximum efficiency throughout the whole animation.  It doesn't need to work while you're reloading.  Because of great effectiveness of kicking, it is used mainly outside of what it was intended for.  It doesn't need to keep you completely invulnerable while you kick.

That really doesn't make any sense.  To prime/chamber/ready a melee weapon, you have to lower your shield and render yourself vulnerable.  But with the kick, even though the kick is almost instantaneous and there's no footwork preparation needed and you're standing on one foot while kicking awkwardly, you can keep your shield up the whole time.

Also, I was playing some Hunt mod earlier and it seemed like a person would start to kick, then I would slash them (with the server registering the hit and playing the sound), then I got kicked.  Is it possible that kicks don't get interrupted?  I was at 200 ping.

If this isn't changed, more and more people are going to realize the power of kicking and more and more people are going to use it, until Mount & Blade becomes Kick & Slash.

To fulfill its purpose, kick only needs to stop forward movement of the player being kicked - not stun, not damage them.  For balance's sake the kicker must be more vulnerable.

CR

Strongly agree. Kick is plain ridicilous as it is now.

+10. Range control and nothing else thanks.

 

[Sarejo]

Well, I voted for not being able to kick while blocking, and shorter vulnerability time for the kickee. I've noticed that after the stagger animation, my character returns to the standing position for a bit, to then resume blocking (considering I was blocking when kicked). That should be reduced. Not being able to kick while blocking with a shield worked nicely when kick was first introduced. I think we should have that back.

 

[Jack_Merchantson]

I voted "other", because I feel that the number one thing that needs to be changed is removal of the kick's chamber-block effect.

 

[okiN]

I think that is probably linked to option 5. I get the impression that they fixed the actual kick chambering, but you can still have the enemy's outstretched foot block your swings because he can parry while kicking.

 

[Jack_Merchantson]

I think that is probably linked to option 5. I get the impression that they fixed the actual kick chambering, but you can still have the enemy's outstretched foot block your swings because he can parry while kicking.

I'll have to test it some more. I'm pretty sure I chamber-blocked while kicking at least twice in the past couple weeks, while not blocking.

If they remove defense while kicking but the chamber-block stays in, it would make for a pretty hollow victory, so to speak...

 

[okiN]

Yeah, no kidding. If kick chambering is still included, then it needs to be fixed. But even if it does linger in some reduced capacity, it's still only part of the problem.

 

[gypsydevil]

A longer cool down would be fine, that might also fix the guys kicking you off steep ladders.