Changes to kicks?

[Skandinav]

I'm all for a complete nerf of kicking, less damage and the first five poll options included - and rather sooner than later.

I'm especially tired of a blocking opponent kicking me and thus enabling himself to land a free, unblockable blow on me.

 

[Harn]

I'd like to see an end to kicks parrying attacks; this has been reduced, but not eliminated. I'd also like to see the kicker be knocked down if hit while kicking, and a ~3 second cool down that starts after a kick animation finishes.

If kicking properly makes the kicker vulnerable enough, I'd hold off on changing the power of the kick & stun itself until it can be properly tested to see if that as well would need to be changed.

 

[Lord Rich]

I hope they do something about it, I want to see the end of people trying to get close to me just to kick and get the free hit, not that they're successful in that much mind you...

 

[okiN]

Yeah, well, we can hope.

 

[inox_ionizer]

Longer vulnerability period for kicker

No prepared attacks while kicking

Other: Make kicks blockable (Not sure what block should stop them, but if there is not a good way to do this, I think kicking should just be removed.)

 

[bierdopjeee]

I have to disagree with this being a bug or unwanted feature. If you get close enough to be kicked, and get kicked, I think it is perfectly fine to be stunned for a little while and risk getting hit by a fast weapon.

Kicking has an extremely small range and you have to aim for the person to be able to land the kick. Kicks can be avoided quite easily by stepping aside or staying out of kicking range. Also, while kicking one is already vulnerable for an attack. I don't see the need to make the kicker even more vulnerable. Oh and I almost forgot, you cannot use kicking for offence because you cannot walk&kick at the same time.

If I something must be changed, then let it be: "Longer cooldown between kicks".

 

[okiN]

I have to disagree with this being a bug or unwanted feature.

Fine, but you appear to be in a minority.

If you get close enough to be kicked, and get kicked, I think it is perfectly fine to be stunned for a little while and risk getting hit by a fast weapon.

Not risk, guarantee. At least if the kicker is up on his abuse tactics.

Kicking has an extremely small range

Debatable. It's not much shorter than some 1h weapons.

and you have to aim for the person to be able to land the kick.

Really not much of a challenge there.

Kicks can be avoided quite easily by stepping aside or staying out of kicking range.

In theory, yes, if you're expecting it and the other guy doesn't know what he's doing.

Also, while kicking one is already vulnerable for an attack.

Not as vulnerable as they should be. See the infamous "kick parry".

I don't see the need to make the kicker even more vulnerable. Oh and I almost forgot, you cannot use kicking for offence because you cannot walk&kick at the same time.

Sure you can. You can't run after a retreating target to kick them, of course, but if you're fighting someone with a short 1h, it's a very simple thing to just backpedal, chamber an attack, wait for them to almost close the range, rush forward, kick and immediately release the chambered attack. Bam! Free hit. Trivially easy if they're not watching out for it.

 

[bierdopjeee]

Fine, but you appear to be in a minority.

The more reason for me to write down a few arguments to try and convince you and others.

Not risk, guarantee. At least if the kicker is up on his abuse tactics.

If you think purely 1-on-1 duels, then yes a good player could "abuse" this. However, with multiple people walking around it does seem very unlikely.

Debatable. It's not much shorter than some 1h weapons.

Indeed debatable. A leg is usually longer than a 1h weapon, therefore I think the kicking range is extremely short (which is fine by my).

Really not much of a challenge there.

Actually, my experience is that people feint so much that aiming a kick is rather difficult. It can be hard to know where one will walk. Missing a kick can often be fatal.

In theory, yes, if you're expecting it and the other guy doesn't know what he's doing.

You know when you can get kicked, when you just stepped into the fart range of your enemy. It is therefore really easy to then strafe or do a step back.

Not as vulnerable as they should be. See the infamous "kick parry".

My experience is that if my kick misses while the enemy swings a weapon at me, I definitely get hit.
Sometimes we both get hit. I get hit by the weapon and the enemy gets stunned by my kick.

* Which come to think of it may give us an other option. If you kick someone, the kicker himself moves back a little. May be a slight stun even.

Sure you can. You can't run after a retreating target to kick them, of course, but if you're fighting someone with a short 1h, it's a very simple thing to just backpedal, chamber an attack, wait for them to almost close the range, rush forward, kick and immediately release the chambered attack. Bam! Free hit. Trivially easy if they're not watching out for it.

This does not seem like a strong argument to me. The attacker should obviously stay alert!
Of course if the Ping difference is too high, this may get abused. But I doubt people will first check the ping of a specific person before executing such a move.

 

[Berserker Pride]

You clearly have not seen a bunch of kickers guarding a ladder on siege.  The kick parry is heavily exploited in that game mode.  You have to use a one-handed weapon because of the archers and said one-handed weapon puts you in kicking range when you are trying to go uphill.  It is just way too much to handle when you actually pull off your attack in time and get it chamber blocked by someone's cloth boot.  There aren't many things that make you want to say "screw this ****" in Warband but that is certainly one of them.

 

[bierdopjeee]

You clearly have not seen a bunch of kickers guarding a ladder on siege.  The kick parry is heavily exploited in that game mode.  You have to use a one-handed weapon because of the archers and said one-handed weapon puts you in kicking range when you are trying to go uphill.  It is just way too much to handle when you actually pull off your attack in time and get it chamber blocked by someone's cloth boot.  There aren't many things that make you want to say "screw this ****" in Warband but that is certainly one of them.

I have been the kicker and the one being kicked, both plenty of times. Entering a guarded castle *should not be* easy.
Also I believe that the kick on the ladder already got nerfed. Last time I tried to kick people top down from ladder I wasn't even able to get one kick landed. Before this was no problem at all.

I'll verify this evening, just to be sure.

 

[Berserker Pride]

Entering a castle shouldn't be easy but one guy on a ladder shouldn't stop five coming up.  I mean you still have the archers plunking arrows into your sides and five guys up top with some bigass weapon readied around the corner to worry about.  Chamber blocking feet have got to go.  The whole idea is ridiculous.

 

[okiN]

The more reason for me to write down a few arguments to try and convince you and others.

There's nothing to argue about. None of the things you're saying are new, and you're not going to convince anybody of anything. You like kicks as they are? That's fine. But myself and others feel strongly that kicks are more useful than they should be, and play too large a part in the game. Less than 18% of the people on the poll agree with you. Something needs to be done, period.

 

[bierdopjeee]

The more reason for me to write down a few arguments to try and convince you and others.

There's nothing to argue about. None of the things you're saying are new, and you're not going to convince anybody of anything. You like kicks as they are? That's fine. But myself and others feel strongly that kicks are more useful than they should be, and play too large a part in the game. Less than 18% of the people on the poll agree with you. Something needs to be done, period.

Excuse me. There is plenty to argue about. And how would you know whom I am going to convince or not?!
The fact that currently more people seem to agree with a change in the kicking system, does not mean that this percentage can not change. Nor does it keep me from giving my opinion.

In the end it is the development team that decides whether or not to implement a change.

By the way, I did bring something new:

If you kick someone, the kicker himself moves back a little. May be a slight stun even.

 

[okiN]

Kicker moving back would help him rather than the victim. Adding stun for the kicker would make it all pretty pointless, you might as well remove the whole feature.

 

[bierdopjeee]

Kicker moving back would help him rather than the victim. Adding stun for the kicker would make it all pretty pointless, you might as well remove the whole feature.

Of course in addition to the current situation... so the one being kicked moves back and gets stunned And the kicker moves only slightly back and gets stunned for a shorter period than the one being kicked.
Not sure why this would be pointless, if that is what you are saying?

 

[okiN]

I don't really feel like explaining everything just for your benefit. I'll let the facts speak for themselves and trust the devs to make the right decision.

 

[bierdopjeee]

For my benefit? Bear in mind that this game is in beta. I am here to discuss the current topic and to make the game as fun and balanced as possible.
Please don't bother responding to a topic if you are not willing to explain yourself when asked.

Entering a castle shouldn't be easy but one guy on a ladder shouldn't stop five coming up.  I mean you still have the archers plunking arrows into your sides and five guys up top with some bigass weapon readied around the corner to worry about.  Chamber blocking feet have got to go.  The whole idea is ridiculous.

This we can agree on. It is ridiculous. I just don't get it that often I guess.

Please try to avoid double posting. -okiN

 

[okiN]

For my benefit? Bear in mind that this game is in beta. I am here to discuss the current topic and to make the game as fun and balanced as possible.

There's nothing to discuss, since we obviously have very different ideas about what constitutes balanced and fun gameplay.

Please don't bother responding to a topic if you are not willing to explain yourself when asked.

I already have explained myself in very clear terms. You don't accept my point of view, and that's fine. But you do need to accept that I'm not interested in getting caught up in a pointless and long-winded argument when there's clearly nothing to gain.

 

[bierdopjeee]

For my benefit? Bear in mind that this game is in beta. I am here to discuss the current topic and to make the game as fun and balanced as possible.

There's nothing to discuss, since we obviously have very different ideas about what constitutes balanced and fun gameplay.

Please don't bother responding to a topic if you are not willing to explain yourself when asked.

I already have explained myself in very clear terms. You don't accept my point of view, and that's fine. But you do need to accept that I'm not interested in getting caught up in a pointless and long-winded argument when there's clearly nothing to gain.

This topic is not about your point of view, it is about whether or not to change the current kicking system, and if yes how. The way you respond to my posts is almost like you don't want people with a different opinion to be heard.
If you think there is nothing to discuss on this subject, then please refrain from posting useless texts.

 

[okiN]

You know what? Fine. I really didn't want to get into this, but I guess I just can't help myself.

This topic is not about your point of view, it is about whether or not to change the current kicking system, and if yes how.

Pretty sure I know what it's about, I made the thread. So yeah, no need to be a **** about it. And of course it's about point of view -- there will always be someone who disagrees with any given system, and your point of view is what determines whether or not you think it needs to be changed. So really, this entire sentence is ridiculous. The purpose of the poll is to determine what point of view is held by the majority of players, and to influence the devs to take action in that direction.

The way you respond to my posts is almost like you don't want people with a different opinion to be heard.

By all means, post your views. Just don't expect to change anyone else's by airing tired and obvious arguments. In retrospect, I guess I should have just passed over your first post, but I felt like I should point out that there was an opposing view on each of the things you were saying.

If you think there is nothing to discuss on this subject, then please refrain from posting useless texts.

"Useless" is all very relative, isn't it? I don't feel like you've posted anything useful, but you obviously disagree.

If you think purely 1-on-1 duels, then yes a good player could "abuse" this. However, with multiple people walking around it does seem very unlikely.

Fights with multiple combatants also tend to involve a lot of 1vs1 situations, and this tactic can easily be used against a group unless they're highly coordinated.

Indeed debatable. A leg is usually longer than a 1h weapon, therefore I think the kicking range is extremely short (which is fine by my).

Don't be thick. Obviously the length of the weapon also has behind it the length of the arm swinging it.

Actually, my experience is that people feint so much that aiming a kick is rather difficult. It can be hard to know where one will walk. Missing a kick can often be fatal.

I'm going to assume that by feinting you mean sidestepping or whatever. That's really not very helpful if the guy is trying to catch up with you while you're backpedalling away from him with a longer weapon and trying to break down his shield. It's also not very helpful unless the kicker is really bad at kicking, since all you have to do is look at the guy and your kick automatically lands. You can even turn it after you press the button, and it's possible for the poor sap chasing you to run into your leg even if you kick much too early.

You know when you can get kicked, when you just stepped into the fart range of your enemy. It is therefore really easy to then strafe or do a step back.

It's a lot less easy than it is for a retreating 2h user to quickly step forward while you're still just outside kick range, then kickslash you.

My experience is that if my kick misses while the enemy swings a weapon at me, I definitely get hit.

And my experience is that swinging at the outstretched leg of the kicker frequently produces a metallic clank.

This does not seem like a strong argument to me. The attacker should obviously stay alert!

Up to a point, yes, but I think the level of "alertness" currently required against kicks is excessive.

I have been the kicker and the one being kicked, both plenty of times.

Same, which is why I know exactly how easy it is.

Entering a guarded castle *should not be* easy.

Sure, but the kick shouldn't be one of the most dreaded weapons in the defender's arsenal.

Also I believe that the kick on the ladder already got nerfed. Last time I tried to kick people top down from ladder I wasn't even able to get one kick landed. Before this was no problem at all.

I've had no trouble at all kicking people on ladders, slopes and staircases ever since it was made possible.

Of course in addition to the current situation... so the one being kicked moves back and gets stunned And the kicker moves only slightly back and gets stunned for a shorter period than the one being kicked.
Not sure why this would be pointless, if that is what you are saying?

Yes, that's what I was saying, and I think it'd be pointless because it'd be much simpler to just shorten the stun period of the kicked player.

I think that pretty much covers everything.