Change my demanding mind

[Lord Grindelvald]

Lack of communication is a huge problem with TW. The game is EA. In EA they open up the game to players and listen to the community to "finish" the game. All the feedback, suggestions and tips provided are met with utter silence. So we dont know what's being done. If what we're suggesting gets listened to, gets used or contemplated.

And their silence is being read as indifference, which sparks anger and disappointment from the community.

I can only hope Dev's would take a page out of Mexxico's book.
He's been working on Diplomacy and balance. He not only listens to all the feedback, suggestions and tips but uses them in his development, gives feedback on them and involves the community.
We know what he's doing, we know that we can suggest things, we know that he's here in the community and we know that he's just as passionate as we are about Bannerlord. We know. Because he gives us information. We know he's not indifferent, because he tells us.

I have no fncking clue what's going on in other subjects. Do I care? Yes. Do I voice my concerns? Or post suggestions? Or give feedback? Hell nah, its only gonna be met with silence. Remember that broking smithing thread on this forum a while back? How easily that 8 page thread could have been resolved with just 1 developer saying something along the line of: We know, we're looking into it. Watch out for update 1.6.

So yeah, communication is bad. We have no idea whats being updated and what isnt. And yeah, its a sorry state for an EA because it doesnt feel like an EA. Early Acces can be a lot of fun. If you're involved.

So is this post just another deformed love declaration to Mexxico? Hell yeah it is, atleast we know he's as passionate as we are.

 

[danEN]

TW is aware, that the strong side of the MB is the moddability, so they are probably stressing that instead of native experience, thus there is a lot of work for a small visible change, but then it's open for further changes by community.

Rest of your post is pretty spot on and well said but this right here is key. Being honest, who really is going to solely play native and never touch mods when the full game is released? 5% of players possibly. I've knocked TW's for slow development and lack of features like a lot of us, but If they're building a base for modders to go crazy on, slower development is something I can accept.

After all, the game not being easily moddable would hurt the game far more than a lack of native features or slow development ever will.

 

[jak1up]

After all, the game not being easily moddable would hurt the game far more than a lack of native features or slow development ever will.

Agree....

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

Let the trolls unite xD love it---However can partly agree on the EA state of development...

 

[MostBlunted]

New players will mostly start with vanilla I guess.

When I discovered Warband I played vanilla for like 150 hours until I went deeper. I also play like every moddable game vanilla first before I use mods. And after "some" hours I discover things I don´t like or want to improve and then I start looking for mods.

But maybe that´s just me.

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

New players will mostly start with vanilla I guess.

When I discovered Warband I played vanilla for like 150 hours until I went deeper. I also play like every moddable game vanilla first before I use mods. And after "some" hours I discover things I don´t like or want to improve and then I start looking for mods.

But maybe that´s just me.

I know a few people who went straight into mods for games and got their ass handed downloading every single hard mod ever but I myself play mostly vanilla like 200hrs before going into mods just waiting for actual decent mods for BL none of the tweak mods made currently really spark any interest for me

 

[Dreed89]

I am a purist as well who prefers a solid vanilla. I have played vanilla Warband maybe over 350 hours, and only then, played one playthrough of PoP mod for maybe around 150 hours.

Even though mods can be better in terms of features, for any game, I prefer to experience the vision developers and designers have. Mods are the extras. The base game needs to be good without mods.

This game is a very valuable game in its genre, or maybe the only one, so it must stand for it.

 

[Short_n_quick]

For communication I do not have too much to say, as I am playing and using forum daily for quite short time. When it comes to bugs, I get response whenever I report one in max one day, including feedback from QA, so I can't complain on this side.
When it comes to ideas from players - implementing things that look simple on surface may be tricky and require a lot of work for it to have good, extendable (by modders) form, while devs still are working on certain set targets (in which proper bug reporting helps), and now extending base by new features, that pollute code/game would be plain unwise, especially if the core is still not perfect.
Then again, getting ideas from the forum still needs analytics (how it will affect balance, how AI will use this, how much time devs will spend on this instead of urging bugfixes) and devtime, maybe there is pile of "maybe in future" ideas from the forum, which they not oficially stated as "we will add this", just to not add to already big pile of TODO and to community demand.
From the other hand, there can be also "not listening to community, modders will add it anyway, we have a lot of work" mentality, which is fair by me, but I understand if it angers you. But it is healthy for company, setting a border for a client (community in this case) for suggestions, just to not drown in quick solutions for various demands. Usually, working in programming bases on delivering product as contracted in beginning (with some minor tweaks), then expand and upgrade, because you need to have something finished and be able to move on.

They can also not care about community at all, which is not that fair, but I just don't like to think about people negative way, almost always there is a reason for someone to do something, which is not "they hate you" or "they are pure evil in this regard" kind of case.

And for informing what is happening about the game, aside from mexxico and Dev updates - not everything that is done by the company is good and needs to be propagated, people still make mistakes and may have no idea how to fix something. For the rest I have no defence, not at this hour in friday.

----------------------------
About mods - unmodded game will be released one time (not counting EA and closed beta), while there is possibility, that there will be something like "Fire and sword", which was sold in boxes, in Poland at least. Each release is additional fund for company and more people may be interested, because of the presented period. Just my guessing...
They may also aim for lifespan of game or count on variety of content provided by mods will get them more share of YT or Twitch (which provides more buyers), that's why they are focusing on them.
But I am just some khuzait noob, so I don't know everything, just thinking of possible reason for them to do what they do.

 

[Younes]

For the multiplayer part, i would really not care how long it took. As long as the core of the multiplayer was fun and improved upon warband.

Except MP is far from improving and innovating on warband

 

[black_bulldog]

Mexico is the exemption who proves the rule (bless him).
i.e. He wouldn't be amazing if he wasn't standing out so much from the Taleworlds norm.

I've seen a few of them from time to time jump into discussion, but sadly few devs actually do, and I have to ask myself how many of them are fluent enough to feel comfortable chatting on English forums. Imo the only exception should be Callum who should be seen a lot more than he is.

 

[stevehoos]

I've seen a few of them from time to time jump into discussion, but sadly few devs actually do, and I have to ask myself how many of them are fluent enough to feel comfortable chatting on English forums. Imo the only exception should be Callum who should be seen a lot more than he is.

Yeah, where is he?

 

[MakinTorf]

yeah, i agree that communication is very low from the devs side and also i agree that the development is very slow, but i think the problems here are the giant code and the complexity of the AI to be balanced. you change one thing, it could be all worse, you change another thing, unforseen bugs appear.
you also dont forget that we are living in corona times and turkey is hit pretty hard as far as i know. the communication with themselves only is also pretty hard and slow. if they would sit all together in one office you just can go to your coworker and figure things out together, with the homeoffice these communication ways are far longer and harder to get easy solutions for some problems.

 

[Apocal]

I have no fncking clue what's going on in other subjects. Do I care? Yes. Do I voice my concerns? Or post suggestions? Or give feedback? Hell nah, its only gonna be met with silence.

The UI dev usually replies pretty fast; I've gotten a response from him in under a minute both here and on Discord.

 

[Cri11e]

I've seen a few of them from time to time jump into discussion, but sadly few devs actually do, and I have to ask myself how many of them are fluent enough to feel comfortable chatting on English forums. Imo the only exception should be Callum who should be seen a lot more than he is.

Yep, not exactly sowing the seeds needed in this community.

 

[sniparsexe]

I've seen a few of them from time to time jump into discussion, but sadly few devs actually do, and I have to ask myself how many of them are fluent enough to feel comfortable chatting on English forums. Imo the only exception should be Callum who should be seen a lot more than he is.

Most of them probably know it well enough but most of the devs are Turks therefore afraid to speak / skeptical to speak lol, I'm dead serious. In Turkey we (at least most of the Turks) have a really stupid thought when it comes to speaking English and that is "If I say something wrong when speaking English, it will be bad and people won't understand what I mean so I shouldn't speak at all" we usually overcome this after some time but some can't overcome so yeah.

Like, mexxico overcame it. He doesn't speak/write perfectly yet he writes and we can understand him, I also don't speak perfectly, not even good, I must say but from what I see people can understand what I mean so I keep talking lol.

These said, they don't write in Turkish forums as well, and they literally don't write, if they send 95 messages to international (this) forums they send 5 to Turkish forums lol (which makes sense because most can understand English)

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

Most of them probably know it well enough but most of the devs are Turks therefore afraid to speak / skeptical to speak lol, I'm dead serious. In Turkey we (at least most of the Turks) have a really stupid thought when it comes to speaking English and that is "If I say something wrong when speaking English, it will be bad and people won't understand what I mean so I shouldn't speak at all" we usually overcome this after some time but some can't overcome so yeah.

Like, mexxico overcame it. He doesn't speak/write perfectly yet he writes and we can understand him, I also don't speak perfectly, not even good, I must say but from what I see people can understand what I mean so I keep talking lol.

These said, they don't write in Turkish forums as well, and they literally don't write, if they send 95 messages to international (this) forums they send 5 to Turkish forums lol (which makes sense because most can understand English)

Think both you and Mexxico write very good English, heck even better then me and i got high grades in it from school but i can be sloppy just for the sake of it to so...+ im an aesthetically thinker so my mind can go in all kinds of directions

 

[black_bulldog]

Most of them probably know it well enough but most of the devs are Turks therefore afraid to speak / skeptical to speak lol, I'm dead serious. In Turkey we (at least most of the Turks) have a really stupid thought when it comes to speaking English and that is "If I say something wrong when speaking English, it will be bad and people won't understand what I mean so I shouldn't speak at all" we usually overcome this after some time but some can't overcome so yeah.

Like, mexxico overcame it. He doesn't speak/write perfectly yet he writes and we can understand him, I also don't speak perfectly, not even good, I must say but from what I see people can understand what I mean so I keep talking lol.

These said, they don't write in Turkish forums as well, and they literally don't write, if they send 95 messages to international (this) forums they send 5 to Turkish forums lol (which makes sense because most can understand English)

So most just don't communicate interesting.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

So most just don't communicate interesting.

Culture things but doesnt apply to all as in our owns as well...I remember from the Legion it took some time to get to know the Chineese guys..:Really good guys but they could take longer time to open up because of their culture...doesnt mean all is that but it can be different as we are as people to...Some are introverts others extro...etc etc

 

[Emil]

The slow progress is famously known due to everything having to go through and be accepted by the founding father. The road-map is probably imaginary, and the path to going gold will lead you astray. You could imply they seem to have missed everything that made Warband great, from the arguable better customisable load-outs, to the non-competitive public communities keeping the plebs in-line (and on-line) whilst more professional e-sport and competitive events still occurs each week in Native and the NW DLC and ensuring modding tools were provided upon launch since that's a big part of why the single player got popular, but the community was not informed of much prior to launch. We even got informed the game was going to be an Early Access title a few months prior to release, after what? 10 years in development? Understandably, no-one in the community took such news with a smile on their face.

I'm Swedish but even my nationalistic aura doesn't condone studios like Paradox treatment of players when they later sell DLCs for 200 extra bucks to allow you a full experience of their base game. Nor should Turks, or anyone else for that matter, feel required to fanboy blindly over what TW failed at doing when they didn't provide what made Mount & Blade, Mount & Blade at launch. But I'm pretty much done with arguing as it's quite clear the community opinion doesn't matter in Armagans eyes. Statistics speak for themselves: https://steamdb.info/graph/?compare=48700,261550&release

Just an addition, not everything is bad about Bannerlord, progress is coming along and hopefully someone will be able to convince the shadow council to make the necessary changes to ensure the game is fun and welcoming to both newcomers and experienced players, be refreshing, yet still Mount & Blade. And I know it was attempted, but fun parts appears to have been less prioritized in order to make space for a logical computer damage calculator, a CSGO/Dota style competitive matchmaker, etc upon launch which I hadn't seen any request/suggestion about.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

. You could imply they seem to have missed everything that made Warband great

Yeah it def does not feel like Warband at all....lol get out of here xD And ive maybe seen very few fanboi messages here and there but they certainly isnt common,,,, So think people would have to re look what a fan boi really is, Or has it came to an point now when as soon as you think something is good youre a fanboi ? Heck i seen a youtuber talking about Bannerlord Cults comming from Warband who defend TW to the end....Where are those ? because i would most def been arguing there to if ive seen someone talking about something that isnt true.... And ive been around this forum since start...Sure Soon is a thing but its not about TW but an fact of continuous stream of life but mostly a joke