![[LCG]Norris](/data/avatars/m/516/516448.jpg?1580994825){kind=avatar}
The only contact that many players have with Bannerlord at this point is entering the forum to see no new updates, other people complain and see if any new mod has come out
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Change my demanding mind
- 主题发起人 [LCG]Norris
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The only contact that many players have with Bannerlord at this point is entering the forum to see no new updates, other people complain and see if any new mod has come out
Mr. Walfington
Recruit
I've worked at nonprofits. They move pretty slow. Not as slow as this.
Balancing issues and bugs should be the easiest to fix. We're talking one day of coding to fix them all.
New features, AI improvements, voice acting, I can understand why they would take longer.
Balancing issues and bugs should be the easiest to fix. We're talking one day of coding to fix them all.
New features, AI improvements, voice acting, I can understand why they would take longer.
NLCRich
Squire
Hmm... Since I joined the forum in July, I have had back and forth on the forums with both devs and community managers several times. So there is some communication. We have relatively recent roadmaps for both SP and MP as well, which hasn't always been the case. Also, I have seen the communication slowly improve over time, though it does often come in small bursts after the release of new updates. I've thought it would be cool if they'd talk more about what is coming, but it seems to be their intention to steer away from this, as the devblogs are often centered on recently released or to come in very next patch type content.
As for the state of the game, sadly, I agree with you. Some of the decisions I don't think have made any improvement to the game (notables, tournaments being all blunt, ranged weapon changes, herd penalty, making a good quest like deserters extremely rare, etc.). Each patch seems to bring another one of these head scratchers. Did they necessarily kill the game, no. But why spend time adding stuff that doesn't improve the player experience at all? The economy of the game is probably in the worst place it has been since release, with trade centered chars being largely off the table at this point. It seems each new version I have a harder and harder time with trade. Nerfs, nerfs, and more nerfs to stuff that doesn't need nerfing while smithing is still broken? And don't get me started on this lag every time i move my guy on the main map after doing something. I just don't understand what they are thinking sometimes... hence why so many look to mods to fix these things. Still, I yet have faith the game will be good in the time of Soon. We just have to wait a bit longer...................
As for the state of the game, sadly, I agree with you. Some of the decisions I don't think have made any improvement to the game (notables, tournaments being all blunt, ranged weapon changes, herd penalty, making a good quest like deserters extremely rare, etc.). Each patch seems to bring another one of these head scratchers. Did they necessarily kill the game, no. But why spend time adding stuff that doesn't improve the player experience at all? The economy of the game is probably in the worst place it has been since release, with trade centered chars being largely off the table at this point. It seems each new version I have a harder and harder time with trade. Nerfs, nerfs, and more nerfs to stuff that doesn't need nerfing while smithing is still broken? And don't get me started on this lag every time i move my guy on the main map after doing something. I just don't understand what they are thinking sometimes... hence why so many look to mods to fix these things. Still, I yet have faith the game will be good in the time of Soon. We just have to wait a bit longer...................
I disagree that bugs are easy to fix. I’d relate it to a rat’s nest of wires tangled up or maybe disarming a bomb. The code is probably such a mess which is why they had to “refactor.” Quests, diplomacy and balancing can also be complicated and time consuming. What I don’t understand is such a delay in producing more maps, armors models. Provided toolset is functional and staff is skilled that shouldn’t be difficult or complicated.
I only check forums now every other weekly to see if there is a new patch and read the notes. I’ll wait another year before I touch this trash again.
I only check forums now every other weekly to see if there is a new patch and read the notes. I’ll wait another year before I touch this trash again.
Yeah and no. I agree that it's slow, no denial of that, and some decisions of corrections are not the best picks ever.
But.
If you ever touched serious coding you would agree, that it's not that easy to fix everything that is spotted as a bug or rebalance "living organism" that the BL is.
I was wondering, where all this dev time went, but recently I discovered, that there is official mod toolset, and now I get it. See, it's one thing if you write program that is set to work just one way, in a linear fashion, you can skip some development, and do code "easy way", by referencing variable in a point or method, that is not the best, but it works and not blows up. There is whole different story if it is sandbox (which has to be adaptive to player's actions) that lives without player interaction (mostly, as far as BL goes; and it has to work forever, because who knows how long player will stick to the save) and when you make also editor along with it (which, belive me or not, has to work; during, and after the modder's actions). There is whole code structure, data flow, events, checks and cases you have to take into consideration, for it not to turn into spaghetti monster, that blows up from time to time. You can't just "make it happen on the screen", you have to add tools, methods, variables and flow for the things modders will add to the game. TW is aware, that the strong side of the MB is the moddability, so they are probably stressing that instead of native experience, thus there is a lot of work for a small visible change, but then it's open for further changes by community.
Yeah, spotting bug is one thing, but have you considered how hard it is sometimes to find it in multi-layer, monstrous-sized code (which engine code is on its own, not to mention rest of it), while thinking, how to not blow up similar actions, that also pass through this part of dataflow.
Developing own engine is a lot of work on its own, taking planning, discussions, corrections and refactor into consideration, then making it game, then balancing it, then fixing bugs. Then every change is bound with other parts of the system (in more broad bugs), and not everyone fixing bugs knows all the components. Going to and asking author (if he still works at TW) may interrupt his work on new features and require him to take a look himself, because he haven't included any comment about why he did that this way back then, and now he has to remind himself his old train of thoughts. I don't have to say that not all of work as a programmer is "click on keyboard until you are deaf from the clicking sound", there is also a ton of thinking about how to do things, and possible cases that may break working things.
Oh, and once again, I agree that it is slow. But it is slow as always, other studios normally have separate divisions working on engines while previous generation of game is developed, thus you don't see its dev time, engines just pop out from nowhere. TW works on everything and it is not the biggest studio, so I Just understand where it comes from and want to point out that it is like this for a reason.
But.
If you ever touched serious coding you would agree, that it's not that easy to fix everything that is spotted as a bug or rebalance "living organism" that the BL is.
I was wondering, where all this dev time went, but recently I discovered, that there is official mod toolset, and now I get it. See, it's one thing if you write program that is set to work just one way, in a linear fashion, you can skip some development, and do code "easy way", by referencing variable in a point or method, that is not the best, but it works and not blows up. There is whole different story if it is sandbox (which has to be adaptive to player's actions) that lives without player interaction (mostly, as far as BL goes; and it has to work forever, because who knows how long player will stick to the save) and when you make also editor along with it (which, belive me or not, has to work; during, and after the modder's actions). There is whole code structure, data flow, events, checks and cases you have to take into consideration, for it not to turn into spaghetti monster, that blows up from time to time. You can't just "make it happen on the screen", you have to add tools, methods, variables and flow for the things modders will add to the game. TW is aware, that the strong side of the MB is the moddability, so they are probably stressing that instead of native experience, thus there is a lot of work for a small visible change, but then it's open for further changes by community.
Yeah, spotting bug is one thing, but have you considered how hard it is sometimes to find it in multi-layer, monstrous-sized code (which engine code is on its own, not to mention rest of it), while thinking, how to not blow up similar actions, that also pass through this part of dataflow.
Developing own engine is a lot of work on its own, taking planning, discussions, corrections and refactor into consideration, then making it game, then balancing it, then fixing bugs. Then every change is bound with other parts of the system (in more broad bugs), and not everyone fixing bugs knows all the components. Going to and asking author (if he still works at TW) may interrupt his work on new features and require him to take a look himself, because he haven't included any comment about why he did that this way back then, and now he has to remind himself his old train of thoughts. I don't have to say that not all of work as a programmer is "click on keyboard until you are deaf from the clicking sound", there is also a ton of thinking about how to do things, and possible cases that may break working things.
Oh, and once again, I agree that it is slow. But it is slow as always, other studios normally have separate divisions working on engines while previous generation of game is developed, thus you don't see its dev time, engines just pop out from nowhere. TW works on everything and it is not the biggest studio, so I Just understand where it comes from and want to point out that it is like this for a reason.
最后编辑:
Finally someone who understands how software development works.
Maybe it is the easiness of editing some xml files or changing a couple of variables using some other tool developed specifically for that editing (like TweakMB) that gives people the notion that development is easy and quick, that it doesn't take time to write code, to test that code, to build it in compliance with design patterns, to make sure nothing else was affected by any change and so on.
Edit: Look at this post. mexxico has been working on this for a long time, look at the amount of work he has put in, the detail of the analysis. How many hours do you think he has spent on this?
最后编辑:
Even if the other points were true, to say that the communication with devs is lame is unfair. I'm not changing anyone's mind so I'll just leave it as a statement.
The only contact that many players have with Bannerlord at this point is entering the forum to see no new updates, other people complain and see if any new mod has come out
I would say that he is just the exception.
Mexico is the exemption who proves the rule (bless him).
i.e. He wouldn't be amazing if he wasn't standing out so much from the Taleworlds norm.
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