Chances of Heroes/NPCs dying on the battlefield

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MadDog001

Recruit
Did something change about the chance of a Lord/Companion/NPC dying on the battlefield? AFAIK there was a 10% chance of that and a tally sheet I did back when this feature was implemented seemed to confirm that (summed up to ~8% tried with 28 individuals, so within range). But now I can't get those guys to die for the life of me. I want to get rid of all the mercenary clans by killing their members off on the battlefield, so my tactic is to whittle down their party numbers until only the sole Lord remains, save the game and then engange him/her and reload everytime he/she doesn't die. I just stopped after the 70th attempt and the last Lord was even worse, it took me !!!124!!! tries until he finally died. I started a new tally sheet before and although I'm only at 7 individuals now (with the last one still not dead after 70 tries) it took me 339 engagements, that's about a 2% chance of death in combat. So did anything chage in those mechanics? Does their armor account for anything? I'm always "killing" them with deadly weapons, sword or arrows/bolts/javelins, no blunt weapons to be sure they have the chance of dying. This is really bugging me, I want to get rid of those guys without losing my positive traits, but I'm not making any progress if I gotta reload for hours just to kill a single NPC.
 
You can execute them, it they have the a negative honor trait.

But yes, the chance of hero dying in battle is too low.
When I hit a hero and deal 500 damage, they should be dead and not wounded.

They should only survive high damge like that if they have a very good Surgeon or very high medicine skill.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
"Strange" when I engage npc's in battle the death rate of them is most likely 30% of the encounters.
Sieges typically 1-3 of them dies when I'm defending( and thats most likely at a 50% ratio).
(some sieges no one dies, sometimes 1, and then sometimes 3, rare to see more than that tbh).

I have noticed though in the encounters when I dont land the killing blow on the lord, they typically survive.
However if I land it, they die more frequent, specially if I hit'em in the head(have you noticed in the log when you test if you hit'em in the head vs arm or leg or torse, while no doubt hitting them in the leg/arm would leave them crippled, they could survive the inital defeat(but later succumb to infection :razz:).
 

Th3o

Recruit
Im playing 1.5.10 and in most big battles (vs. armies) lords die and sometimes several at once. It wouldnt bother me if new lords, their successors, were always present. Unfortunately, their successors often die in past or future battles, so clans die with them. But even if its 20+ years since beginning and there are many freshly matured lords, look at them. None have decent skills (most have none), lords of the same sex indistinguishable from each other, many males in female clothes, some go to battle without armor and weapons...
I think about disabling heroes death at all in future campaigns.
There should be a slider, i think, about lord death probability in general. And automatically generated lords should be debugged and have decent, lordly skills and armor.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
Im playing 1.5.10 and in most big battles (vs. armies) lords die and sometimes several at once. It wouldnt bother me if new lords, their successors, were always present. Unfortunately, their successors often die in past or future battles, so clans die with them. But even if its 20+ years since beginning and there are many freshly matured lords, look at them. None have decent skills (most have none), lords of the same sex indistinguishable from each other, many males in female clothes, some go to battle without armor and weapons...
I think about disabling heroes death at all in future campaigns.
There should be a slider, i think, about lord death probability in general. And automatically generated lords should be debugged and have decent, lordly skills and armor.
Ideally they shoudlnt have merged the life and death like they did in what 1.56? or when it was.
Should have kept the toggle on for those who want the realisme, and those who dont(dont get me wrong on relase I'll mod this out, there is mods for it over on Nexus already, I'm purist during early acess so no mods).

I do agree with sliders like you have for clan members a % slider for lords dying would be good aswell.

And as you say the new lords being "born" is generally speaking very underpowered when they are out there.
As you say the skills often dont show up, and the itemization seems to be flawed as you say aswell, with no gear, or lack(helmets anyone?)

I'm guessing this is something that they will be working on more for down the line, as for the transvestite part, with men in female clothing, I've not had that in my game since it was adressed some patch(dont recall when) ago tbh.

I killed of Fen Caernecht or what its called a Battanian clan in 1 battle..
Mother was already dead, she is old at start, dad was fairly old, but in the battle, so was the son Guaran, both of them died, and no kids, no wife - boom gone.

But back to the op, since I first posted about death etc, I've killed 3 lords in battle so far and 4 in sieges(as defender) 1 thing of note is that in sieges its almost always 1 female who will die, this is abit puzzling that they die so often vs men.

So to the OP I'm curious what difficulty lvl you are playing on, and what the surgeon skill is, even if you dont have the perk, I wonder if it have an impact (even though imo it shouldnt)(your skill shouldnt play an effect on the enemy, besides the perk one you can pick)
 

MadDog001

Recruit
First off thanks to Emperor1997 for the hint with the negative honor trait, I had been up to attempt 101 from the 70 I talked about in my initial post and as he had the -1 honor trait I captured and executed him without losing any of my traits, good thing to know that I can do this now with any unhonorable prisoner lord.

So the next one took me 45 attempts, then I was 15 attempts into the recent one when I read Zorion_no's last post and I remembered a surgeon perk that might be the problem, it's "Doctors Oath - Medicine recovery chance applies to enemies too", my Surgeon is level 134 and she has that perk active, I'm not sure, but if that perk lowers the probability of dying on the battlefield, then my dumb ass created this struggle himself. I set my surgeons party role to "none" now and after that it only took me 7 more attempts until the next dude died in battle. I will test this a little more now, if it means I always got to switch her clan role before those death-battles then that's quite the hassle, but if it helps then whatever. I think I play on easy btw.

Those auto-generated clan successors are a joke too, I also saw many of them wearing female clothes and roaming the map with tiny parties because their skills are non-existent, I also made another thread some days ago pointing that out because instead of a clan being destroyed upon me killing the last member, a new member in a dress spawned out of nowhere and kept the clan alive.
 

Th3o

Recruit
m curious what difficulty lvl you are playing on, and what the surgeon skill is
As its mentioned here, 1.5.x have about 10% lord death probability. Armies often consist of 10+ parties. So 2 dead lords each good battle is kinda normal. And there are real big battles, and there is Random, so i sometimes see up to 5-6 unfortunate souls. And i try to get into each big battle there is. For me lord population ir real pain in the ass.
Medical skill is usually 150+ and all possible perks are toggled (not purist about mods), but I dont think this affects lords, at least in 1.5.10

btw.When it happens that I need certain clan or lord gone (or back to life), I use saddled edge editor in 1.5.x
 

MadDog001

Recruit
So I tested some more and the Doctors Oath perk of my Surgeon is definitely the cause of the issue. If it is active, then at the end of each battle about 70% of the enemies troops are wounded and 30% dead, if that perk is not active then it's the other way around, about 70% dead and only 30% wounded. That's pretty useful if you want to take many prisoners to ransom for money, not so if you want enemy lords to die, but I can work around that. Now I have the perk active until only the lord an maybe a few of his/her troops remain, then set my surgeons party role to none and go to town on the lord. With the 6 lords I tried that until now in 4 cases they were dead before the 10th engagement, the most tries I had were 21 until death but it all averages to about 9% chance of death, so the 10% indeed still hold up if that surgeon perk is not active.

I guess that resolves this topic, thanks to everyone that chimed in!
 

Zorion_no

Regular
So I tested some more and the Doctors Oath perk of my Surgeon is definitely the cause of the issue. If it is active, then at the end of each battle about 70% of the enemies troops are wounded and 30% dead, if that perk is not active then it's the other way around, about 70% dead and only 30% wounded. That's pretty useful if you want to take many prisoners to ransom for money, not so if you want enemy lords to die, but I can work around that. Now I have the perk active until only the lord an maybe a few of his/her troops remain, then set my surgeons party role to none and go to town on the lord. With the 6 lords I tried that until now in 4 cases they were dead before the 10th engagement, the most tries I had were 21 until death but it all averages to about 9% chance of death, so the 10% indeed still hold up if that surgeon perk is not active.

I guess that resolves this topic, thanks to everyone that chimed in!
No problem, but I think there is a perk even higher up kind of that also can play part.

I was in a cheezy fight I had 87 troops but the other side had just sieged and captured the castle I was trying to save, 1,2 sec away from stopping them :/

So I rush in there is 7 lords in the army, I attack, during the battle and the list of casualties there is 2 marked as dead.
However when I capture/release they suddenly are there.

This makes me wonder if there "recover fatal wounds" perk also plays some part in it, as these guys was def dead on the casualtyreport.

But glad its resolved.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
So I tested some more and the Doctors Oath perk of my Surgeon is definitely the cause of the issue. If it is active, then at the end of each battle about 70% of the enemies troops are wounded and 30% dead, if that perk is not active then it's the other way around, about 70% dead and only 30% wounded. That's pretty useful if you want to take many prisoners to ransom for money, not so if you want enemy lords to die, but I can work around that. Now I have the perk active until only the lord an maybe a few of his/her troops remain, then set my surgeons party role to none and go to town on the lord. With the 6 lords I tried that until now in 4 cases they were dead before the 10th engagement, the most tries I had were 21 until death but it all averages to about 9% chance of death, so the 10% indeed still hold up if that surgeon perk is not active.

I guess that resolves this topic, thanks to everyone that chimed in!
That Perk math sounds extremely heavy handed. I was hoping for more nuanced gaming
 
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