Chamber blocking is non-functional

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I'd call myself ridiculously good at chambering in warband, the fact I can't get a chamber off in controlled environments with my best mates (who also happen to be sick at the game too) means something is wrong
 

Scarf Ace

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
The only way I could see a "physical" chamber block work would be if all windup/chamber animations actually were to include actual parrying movements, so a successful hit from a chamber block would pretty much be a classical parry-riposte.
While it would look cool when pulled off, it would probably also have some really weird gameplay side effects resulting from the parry hitbox, not to mention how odd it would look if every swing was preceded by parrying an imaginary attack, although the parry motion could be designed to look ambiguous enough to make sense both as a chamber block and windup. It'd probably result in a lot of unintentional lucky parries from people hitting the target's weapon as it's winding up.
In addition, all long weapons would have an absurd parrying hitbox, stopping everything in a wide area.

So yeah, physical chambering I think is a bit of a dead end.
 
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Ziraal

Recruit
After reading the whole comments (like literally all of them) I have a few points I'd like to discuss ...

So the "main problem" I see in pretty much all comments is that it was simpler in Warband, and all masters of this trade are now helpless vis a vis this new system categorized as "a degree of precision that is extremely hard for anyone to achieve".

The fact is I've seen many times people claiming that Chambering is something that gives the possibility to have a skill-gap between people, so how is this system that is, as everyone said, much harder to use or land not better ? It will give people a serious skill gap between those we can master it and those who cannot. Yes it may be hard but the harder it is the better it shows the skill of an opponent when he can Chamber.
And not to add that it is more realistic than simply time your attack and get the right direction.

I know it's hard for veterans to have their habits crushed I had my lot on other games, but it's only fair when we are going towards greater things. They did not do that to say "****'em multiplayer god from Warbands".

Ho and on the topic that now "you only do it by accident" well in a sword fight (or whatever) it happens.
Anyway so now only true masters of the combat will be able to do it, maybe only sometimes with the right weapon type. And I am sure youwill get around.
 
After reading the whole comments (like literally all of them) I have a few points I'd like to discuss ...

So the "main problem" I see in pretty much all comments is that it was simpler in Warband, and all masters of this trade are now helpless vis a vis this new system categorized as "a degree of precision that is extremely hard for anyone to achieve".

The fact is I've seen many times people claiming that Chambering is something that gives the possibility to have a skill-gap between people, so how is this system that is, as everyone said, much harder to use or land not better ? It will give people a serious skill gap between those we can master it and those who cannot. Yes it may be hard but the harder it is the better it shows the skill of an opponent when he can Chamber.
And not to add that it is more realistic than simply time your attack and get the right direction.

I know it's hard for veterans to have their habits crushed I had my lot on other games, but it's only fair when we are going towards greater things. They did not do that to say "****'em multiplayer god from Warbands".

Ho and on the topic that now "you only do it by accident" well in a sword fight (or whatever) it happens.
Anyway so now only true masters of the combat will be able to do it, maybe only sometimes with the right weapon type. And I am sure youwill get around.

Because it's hard to a point that nobody can chamber consistently. I thought it was clear enough but I probably should've emphasized it more.
 

Ziraal

Recruit
Because it's hard to a point that nobody can chamber consistently. I thought it was clear enough but I probably should've emphasized it more.

No I really got that, and that's why I said "Anyway so now only true masters of the combat will be able to do it, maybe only sometimes with the right weapon type " emphasis on "sometimes". Tbh I think it adds some more depth to the combats, because you have to rely on luck a bit and not entirely on you skill. Maybe it will work, maybe not. You take a risk. That's what a combat should be, taking risks, not just becoming the master of blocking.
Yes it does "suck" for the ones that were solemnly relying on this to do 1v3, 1v5 or even more. But is it really good for immersion sake or even balancing ? That a simple can hold of 5 ennemies just cause he can block any types of weapons ? Is it balanced if just with a bit of timing you can pretty much take on anyone a bit less skilled than you ?

I will give you a good comparaison :
Some years ago lots of people on CSGO mastered the ways of the scout, like pretty much anyone skilled enough to get a timing right could make accurate jumpshots with this gun, but then they changed it so even if your timing is perfect it's still imprecise, it was purely for balanced sake and i must say now it even more gratifying when you can land one, cause not anyone can do it anymore. you can always try, you take the risk, would it land tho ? No one knows, and that's the spirit.

This totally my opinion, I know it is frustrating when things you knew gets shattered into oblivion, but I think it's for the best. And tbh from what I've seen on all medieval games with a tiny bit of a "complex" fighting system, there is always people to go to this "impossible for human" moves and land them everytime.
 
No I really got that, and that's why I said "Anyway so now only true masters of the combat will be able to do it, maybe only sometimes with the right weapon type " emphasis on "sometimes". Tbh I think it adds some more depth to the combats, because you have to rely on luck a bit and not entirely on you skill. Maybe it will work, maybe not. You take a risk. That's what a combat should be, taking risks, not just becoming the master of blocking.
Yes it does "suck" for the ones that were solemnly relying on this to do 1v3, 1v5 or even more. But is it really good for immersion sake or even balancing ? That a simple can hold of 5 ennemies just cause he can block any types of weapons ? Is it balanced if just with a bit of timing you can pretty much take on anyone a bit less skilled than you ?

I will give you a good comparaison :
Some years ago lots of people on CSGO mastered the ways of the scout, like pretty much anyone skilled enough to get a timing right could make accurate jumpshots with this gun, but then they changed it so even if your timing is perfect it's still imprecise, it was purely for balanced sake and i must say now it even more gratifying when you can land one, cause not anyone can do it anymore. you can always try, you take the risk, would it land tho ? No one knows, and that's the spirit.

This totally my opinion, I know it is frustrating when things you knew gets shattered into oblivion, but I think it's for the best. And tbh from what I've seen on all medieval games with a tiny bit of a "complex" fighting system, there is always people to go to this "impossible for human" moves and land them everytime.

What happens instead is that nobody bothers to do it, because the risk is so great that it far outweighs the possible reward. It's not something that you can eventually 'master', it's just too unreliable and requires an unreasonable degree of precision. If you miss, you most likely get hit, trying to chamber with such unreliable timings and while having to perfectly touch your opponent's weapon on the basis that maybe, just maybe, if you're lucky you'll pull it off, is simply not worth the trouble. It's not a matter of being 'used to the old ways' and being reluctant to change, I wouldn't even necessarily want it to work exactly the same as Warband, chamber blocking is simply flawed at the moment. Making it consistent, and feasible, won't remove risk from it.

Unless I'm getting the wrong impression, you also seem to base your arguments on the premise that chambering in Warband was risk-free, when it was absolutely not the case. As for your question, yes when it comes to a skill-based combat system, those who have more practice and a better understanding of the mechanics and timings, will naturally have an easier time against those who don't. The answer isn't making combat luck based, but offering players ways to compete against opponents of similar skill, to gradually learn and improve.
 
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Reapy

Sergeant Knight at Arms
No I really got that, and that's why I said "Anyway so now only true masters of the combat will be able to do it, maybe only sometimes with the right weapon type " emphasis on "sometimes". Tbh I think it adds some more depth to the combats, because you have to rely on luck a bit and not entirely on you skill. Maybe it will work, maybe not. You take a risk. That's what a combat should be, taking risks, not just becoming the master of blocking.
Yes it does "suck" for the ones that were solemnly relying on this to do 1v3, 1v5 or even more. But is it really good for immersion sake or even balancing ? That a simple can hold of 5 ennemies just cause he can block any types of weapons ? Is it balanced if just with a bit of timing you can pretty much take on anyone a bit less skilled than you ?

I will give you a good comparaison :
Some years ago lots of people on CSGO mastered the ways of the scout, like pretty much anyone skilled enough to get a timing right could make accurate jumpshots with this gun, but then they changed it so even if your timing is perfect it's still imprecise, it was purely for balanced sake and i must say now it even more gratifying when you can land one, cause not anyone can do it anymore. you can always try, you take the risk, would it land tho ? No one knows, and that's the spirit.

This totally my opinion, I know it is frustrating when things you knew gets shattered into oblivion, but I think it's for the best. And tbh from what I've seen on all medieval games with a tiny bit of a "complex" fighting system, there is always people to go to this "impossible for human" moves and land them everytime.

I'm about 50% with you. I think the comparison with your example is that you are describing a hard shot that results in a kill. Maybe there is the risk that the shot (don't know comp CS very well) misses the other person will just kill the shooter, but just assuming that mostly it is a missed shot. A chamber attempt is a risk vs taking damage or death if you miss it, the reward for it looks to be getting blocked in rhytem since the chamber doesn't do much to break it.

Chambering consistently on left/right swings against beginners (who are very predictable and on rhythm) is not too hard after some practice. You do have to know your weapon and char and be familiar with the duration of the chamber window, and you have to know the speed of the incoming weapon, but there aren't many varieties of weapons you see online, and you can judge the big slow weapons pretty easily. I remember I had a brief CRPG stint where each person basically had a different swing speed. I thought at first chambering was impossible there, but with enough practice as you exchange some hits with them you get a feel for the weapon speed and could get it in there.

That said I'm about 100% in agreement with most that the timings, while hard, don't really get you anything or offer anything besides going 'hey, cool i chambered'. So even if you did pratice hard and could get the timing down vs a vet attacking you, it wouldn't get much.

On the plus side, in the beta patch today they added a unique sound effect for chambering, so hopefully there is some working going on with them.
 

Vissy

Baron
WBNW
I'm at the point where I can chamber about 50% of side swings when stationary, but when moving it's still nearly impossible. Part of the reason is that I don't really know what the precise prerequisites for a chamber are. The time window for chambering also seems to be very small.
 

z00t

Regular
WB
I'm at the point where I can chamber about 50% of side swings when stationary, but when moving it's still nearly impossible. Part of the reason is that I don't really know what the precise prerequisites for a chamber are. The time window for chambering also seems to be very small.

There is also the consideration that when moving, your stance can diminish the small window size even further because of your slower swing. There are just additional factors now (both good & bad) that we didn't have to account for in the old system, making it much more unpredictable.

Chambering couches is also a thing that was left behind- properly practiced & mastered made a difference vs heavy cav that's missing in BL.
 

Mazurus

Recruit
Chamber must be difficult to reach, maybe they have to add a plus on damage for high reward. But make it easier is not the way, I think.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Chamber must be difficult to reach, maybe they have to add a plus on damage for high reward. But make it easier is not the way, I think.
Even if it oneshots... the enemy can just block it. Giveing a free hit for it just breaks the game and makes it super passive. It would make the game super passive just look at for honor and they got bashes to break the enemy defense.
 
The main gripe that I have with this physically-based system is its random inclusion inconsistent of other systems in the game - we can establish that blocking is not physically-based, except for weird active block exceptions (but passive, "no-need to hold right click your weapon is already in the way" blocks don't exist), winding up an attack is not physically based - your arm can go through walls. Attacking other weapons isn't physically based either - there's no weapon clashing or anything.

But chambers are physically based, and this is inconsistent. Why are chambers physically-based but not passively blocking, weapon clashing, weapon wind-up, weapons in "neutral phase" or "attack windup phase" having an inane block, shields on your back, kicking, so many goddamn other things? Weapon hitboxes only have the ability to block physically during the timing of a chamber, and not during attacks, holding your attack windup, holding your weapon without attacking, holding your weapon normally in neutral, holding your weapon in a certain place after attacking, holding your weapon during chain attacks, holding your weapon (your shield) on your back, etc. etc. The game establishes a precedent that the physicality of your weapon's position won't do anything or is irrelevant and is just there for flavour, and then shatters that precedent by saying oh actually your weapon's physical position does matter, but only when chambering.

Obviously, if all weapons had the ability to block without actually needing to be in a block position we would have a very different game, something more like Examina than Mount and Blade, but this halfway "oh our game is physics-based in this exact one part of the game and nowhere else" is an implementation that defies game identity and consistency of game systems.

tl;dr, give us Examina
 

Mazurus

Recruit
Even if it oneshots... the enemy can just block it. Giveing a free hit for it just breaks the game and makes it super passive. It would make the game super passive just look at for honor and they got bashes to break the enemy defense.
Yeah, in WB you could block a chamber too. I am just saying that High risk / High reward its ok for me, you know your own limitations, you could know when to use it when you dont, its just in you, your choice. But it has to be hard to make, not a thing you could do it all the time, the awesomes thing are awesome because they are hard and not common seen.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Yeah, in WB you could block a chamber too. I am just saying that High risk / High reward its ok for me, you know your own limitations, you could know when to use it when you dont, its just in you, your choice. But it has to be hard to make, not a thing you could do it all the time, the awesomes thing are awesome because they are hard and not common seen.
this just makes it rng for competitive, chambers should be somewhat consistent so they can be used for groupfights and thats its sole purpose
 

Mazurus

Recruit
this just makes it rng for competitive, chambers should be somewhat consistent so they can be used for groupfights and thats its sole purpose
Seeing the group figth as the only proposite for the chamber is limiting yourself to a tool that can be used whenever you need. The tool is there, and is hard to use, for a group figth youo should really use friendly fire on your side, and if you can the chamber among other things. But chamber is more than just for group figths, maybe you are in a 1v1 combat and you see enemies approaching, and you need to end the figth quikly because is gonna get harder later, then you chamber your opponet who doesnt expect that because he know that the odds of a succesful chamber are low, but you did it, and he dies because of it. As I see, there are many scenarios where you can use the chamber, and the elemento of surprise of this is that is hard.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Seeing the group figth as the only proposite for the chamber is limiting yourself to a tool that can be used whenever you need. The tool is there, and is hard to use, for a group figth youo should really use friendly fire on your side, and if you can the chamber among other things. But chamber is more than just for group figths, maybe you are in a 1v1 combat and you see enemies approaching, and you need to end the figth quikly because is gonna get harder later, then you chamber your opponet who doesnt expect that because he know that the odds of a succesful chamber are low, but you did it, and he dies because of it. As I see, there are many scenarios where you can use the chamber, and the elemento of surprise of this is that is hard.
It seems you didnt play much warband. If you can end the fight quickly with chambers no one will attack. We had that no one wants it.
 

Mazurus

Recruit
It seems you didnt play much warband. If you can end the fight quickly with chambers no one will attack. We had that no one wants it.
Believe me, I played a lot of WB, and I know some players who make awesomes chambers in fights, and of course, not always was a success. And of course they hesitate at the time to attack you, and they were more attent to that, but not for that they will stop attaking you. Nobody can success 100% of the chambers, but if you make a couple in some rounds, they will approach you differently.

And if the chamber get easier, everybody could actually make a chamber, and there you have that no one will start attacking.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Just realized that character height also affects your weapon's physical position, and therefore chamber blocking. Just throw that into the pile of **** I guess.

Also, @Squirrelfart you summed it up perfectly.
 
I don't say this to brag, but prove a point as to how difficult and frankly useless chambering is in BannerLord multiplayer.

I was one of best chamber block users in the North American scene for years and I can attest to the fact that they are just too difficult to reliably use in real combat.

It's too risky, too clunky and too unreliable to pull off. Please fix this mechanic and bring back one of the best high end skill moves that players could use in their fights.
 
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