Chad Warband vs. Virgin Bannerlord

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@vito397 @Life_Erikson check this.

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On page #2 there is a comment from Dejan, but since then we haven't heard anything about it... (I didn't insist on it either ? ? ).
 
@vito397 @Life_Erikson check this.

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On page #2 there is a comment from Dejan, but since then we haven't heard anything about it... (I didn't insist on it either ? ? ).
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said in the linked post. It also gives me hope that they are reworking the smithing, however I doubt they are going to bring the more logical and immersive option of paying the blacksmith back. I just hope the "smithing rework" was not reduced to just tweaking the amount of coal smelting weapons could give you!

Also, your ability to keep track of various threads and replies on these forums is absolutely impressive.
 
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Also, your ability to keep track of various threads and replies on these forums is absolutely impressive.
We must never lose track of where we come from and where we are going...That's why some devs hate me :iamamoron: (joking) ...but then I send them
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and they get over being angry.
 
When you really deep it the only thing Bannerlord actually offers long time Warband players right now is improved graphics and higher troop counts, I can't think of much else actually worth playing Bannerlord for

Yes, exactly. And the lack of the other content is what keeps me from playing it and going back to Warband.
 
I know there is some idea that caravans should be required for enough food for the towns, but I don't like it. Unless we can proactively arrange for caravans and guards to bring in as much food as we need, it's juts annoying. Anything I can't interact with I don't want to be punished by. I want to spend money and use troops to just build farms if I can afford it and or send specials supply caravans and such.
Well also if the entire town is literally starving, then there should probably be prices to match and an incentive for every trader in the area to start rocketing food over there - plus AI coding to match.

I gather that there are arbitrary caps or scales to how much demand will drive up price in order to keep players from gaming the system, which is pretty asinine because why even have an economic system if you're going to slap arbitrary limits on it? If you're literally starving to death, the cost of beef vs grain vs cheese becomes completely academic: ALL food is equally priceless when you have no food.

Prices should also take into account the general economic outlook: if the town is in a structurally permanent food shortage, then the sell price shouldn't drop to below-cost the minute a caravan gives them enough to not starve for like a couple days.

Same goes for all trade goods: I have no earthly clue why selling durable goods like silver ore to the only town in the area with a silversmith magically drops the buy price below par after a handful of ticks... which paradoxically causes caravans to buy up the extra supply and leave the exact same town with zero silver a few days later. The fact that they removed the WB workshop stockpiling mechanic from WB is also insane... because your only options when confronted with a massive buy opportunity of cheap goods is to either sell it for nothing or drag it in your caravan or conquer a castle to put it in.

Here are the extra credit points: what would be very realistic is if denars weren't magically created out of thin air and prices fluctuated according to the money supply vs the general economy.

Basically: the economic system is "rich" in the sense that it isn't all abstracted... but it's not rich enough to actually make more sense than an abstracted system.
Maybe back in 1.5.7 but Mexxico went back and undid the nerf to starvation.
Now it is straightforward to starve out towns, even the low prosperity ones.
Does that actually have an impact on sieges? Like... more than a couple of garrison/militia troops disappearing per day? Color me skeptical that TW would implement historically-accurate starving out a garrison because they seem terminally allergic to allowing players to avoid the s***y BL combat.

To be fair - a lot of my observations are from in-depth plays which I pretty much stopped doing towards the end of 2020 and at this point I can't be arsed. I've tried to play modded BL past the mid-game recently and it's boring as piss.

horse villages, despite those being the sone of the worst for death spiraling towns because they produce sumpters which get consumed into a prosperity boost (more food required) but provide no additional food to offset it.
Yep. I'm not dialed into the code, but this is exactly the kind of stupid crap that would be better replaced by an abstracted system if it can't be overhauled entirely.

Producing horses does not magically make a community more prosperous, unless those horses are being purchased enough to allow domestic importers access to things like food.
 
Well also if the entire town is literally starving, then there should probably be prices to match and an incentive for every trader in the area to start rocketing food over there - plus AI coding to match.

I gather that there are arbitrary caps or scales to how much demand will drive up price in order to keep players from gaming the system, which is pretty asinine because why even have an economic system if you're going to slap arbitrary limits on it? If you're literally starving to death, the cost of beef vs grain vs cheese becomes completely academic: ALL food is equally priceless when you have no food.
Yeah this is a big hole in the system and one they should fix. The town market only looks at the price of each food item relative to it's inventory and doesn't consider it's consumption or needs at all. SO you often have an issue where the town needs much more food then the "better buy prices" will encourage a caravan to sell. You will get to a point where you're selling at huge loss but it's still not satisfying the town's needs AND doing so will actually attract caravan's to come buy the cheap grain back up ?
Maybe back in 1.5.7 but Mexxico went back and undid the nerf to starvation.
Now it is straightforward to starve out towns, even the low prosperity ones.
Idduno I've been unable to completely starve out a town in 1.5.10. They will lose troops but it gets to a point where they stop loosing them. Of course I could be overlooking something, but when I've tried it just gets to a point they just don't have the -garrison anymore even though they in negative food.

Exactly. Ordering a sword from a skillfull swordsmith is much more in line with the roleplaying aspect of the game than the "craft your own sword" option. I think TW did this to get on the crafting bandwaggon which seems quite popular in recent games. I think this is another exemple of TW not understanding their own game.
I want this too! I don't want to sit thier clicking stuff in the smithy and resting and filling the save with "crafted item data" but I would love to make custom or special stuff some other way via a npc or quest. IMO if they want a crafting skill it needs to be more diverse and have other uses. Skills should be continued use to the play as they build up, not a one pump chump: I made da good weapon, I'm done. I made 1 million dollars I'm done. They could have passive uses for it too if they invented good mechanics for it, like "it cost X time after battle to resupply archers, but less because of somebodies crafting". oh well, maybe m & b 3.

That's because prosperity eats more of the food than other factors and Empire towns have unusually high prosperity (they kept getting boosted) while most of the Khuzait towns are ****holes except for for Makeb and Chaikand, which have a few grain and fish villages.
Oh that ****ed up! They're boosting the empire trying to help them have a chance but it's ****ing them over :ROFLMAO:
 
I prefer the lance. Once you get good at it you surely can become a gattling gun on four legs with a bow, and a two handed axe is more versatile than a lance, but for me the ease at which you can pick off infantry with the lance (espacially in the beginning of the game) makes it king. Also I like roleplaying as a knight when im not playing as a nord. :razz:

In the case of the meme I picked it because lances in Bannerlord are extremly wonkey. To be honest all mounted combat is. Espacially against infantry. The worst thing is trying to hit infantry with a mace or axe from horsback. It feels like doing yoga whilst playing "whack a mole".
I didn't use a bow because you can only carry around 60 arrows.

MY MASTERWORK POLEHAMMER NEEDS NO AMMUNITION.
Seriously though, once you have end-game level Lordly armors, you can splatter 200 dudes in a siege with one of those.
 
I didn't use a bow because you can only carry around 60 arrows.

MY MASTERWORK POLEHAMMER NEEDS NO AMMUNITION.
Seriously though, once you have end-game level Lordly armors, you can splatter 200 dudes in a siege with one of those.
Honestly, that's something that always annoyed me about WB/BL.

I know that weapon-breaking mechanics are bad, but there was something extremely incongruous about repeatedly blasting dudes in the face at Mach 2 with a lance that never ever breaks. Same logic applies to every weapon, especially ones with a haft made of wood. I believe that's one of the reasons why maces were popular sidearms IRL: swords shatter and lances get stuck and crossbows run out of ammo - but Big Thumpy Stick almost never fails.

I believe that polearms should be as OP in-game as they were IRL, but their propensity to break eventually because that's what wood does should be in there too.
 
Honestly, that's something that always annoyed me about WB/BL.

I know that weapon-breaking mechanics are bad, but there was something extremely incongruous about repeatedly blasting dudes in the face at Mach 2 with a lance that never ever breaks. Same logic applies to every weapon, especially ones with a haft made of wood. I believe that's one of the reasons why maces were popular sidearms IRL: swords shatter and lances get stuck and crossbows run out of ammo - but Big Thumpy Stick almost never fails.

I believe that polearms should be as OP in-game as they were IRL, but their propensity to break eventually because that's what wood does should be in there too.
+1. I think durability should play a factor into the weapon stats, like it did in WB. Over time and use all equipment should loose durability, and be able to be fixed. Being fixed should be tied with the smithing mechanics.
 
+1. I think durability should play a factor into the weapon stats, like it did in WB. Over time and use all equipment should loose durability, and be able to be fixed. Being fixed should be tied with the smithing mechanics.
HAHA! I wouldn't go that far at all. Maintenance and fixing-stuff mechanics are a giant PITAS and I don't remotely trust most game devs - let alone TW - to get it right.

I just want your lance to break after half a dozen full-bore mounted charges at most and then magically respawn just like javelins/ammo does.
 
HAHA! I wouldn't go that far at all. Maintenance and fixing-stuff mechanics are a giant PITAS and I don't remotely trust most game devs - let alone TW - to get it right.

I just want your lance to break after half a dozen full-bore mounted charges at most and then magically respawn just like javelins/ammo does.
Well I think in WB they had a good base to develop more from. Some shape way of form should be implemented.
 
I believe that's one of the reasons why maces were popular sidearms IRL: swords shatter and lances get stuck and crossbows run out of ammo - but Big Thumpy Stick almost never fails.
(my own emphasis added above)
HAHHA! True! A good mace will just crush someone to death armor be damned but spears, lances and most other weapons break, it is why you see metal reinforcements on some weapons running down the handle with riveting.

However, I have found in my playthroughs of Bannerlord that a lance is a horrific waste of time, every two bit looter with a length 35 hammer or a pitchfork out-ranges me 250% of the time or just hits the horse, disrupts the lance and then I get nailed immediately afterwords. (My horse lost 150hp the other day in a lance attempt, almost got creamed myself) The common looter with a rock is darn near lethal and if they have a pitchfork I wonder why I even bother with a lance in the first place. Looter thumpy rocks and thumpy sticks are lethal.
 
(my own emphasis added above)
HAHHA! True! A good mace will just crush someone to death armor be damned but spears, lances and most other weapons break, it is why you see metal reinforcements on some weapons running down the handle with riveting.

However, I have found in my playthroughs of Bannerlord that a lance is a horrific waste of time, every two bit looter with a length 35 hammer or a pitchfork out-ranges me 250% of the time or just hits the horse, disrupts the lance and then I get nailed immediately afterwords. (My horse lost 150hp the other day in a lance attempt, almost got creamed myself) The common looter with a rock is darn near lethal and if they have a pitchfork I wonder why I even bother with a lance in the first place. Looter thumpy rocks and thumpy sticks are lethal.
LOL I love the Realistic Battle Mod for fixing this problem but currently the combination of RBM + De Re Militari is bugged so that thrown daggers and axes do 1000+ damage.

I'm just kinda done with this game, man.
 
I keep playing because I enjoy two features of an entire game: graphics and the "holy hell its anarchy" 400+ steppe battles of Arab vs. Mongol.
 
Honestly, that's something that always annoyed me about WB/BL.

I know that weapon-breaking mechanics are bad, but there was something extremely incongruous about repeatedly blasting dudes in the face at Mach 2 with a lance that never ever breaks. Same logic applies to every weapon, especially ones with a haft made of wood. I believe that's one of the reasons why maces were popular sidearms IRL: swords shatter and lances get stuck and crossbows run out of ammo - but Big Thumpy Stick almost never fails.

I believe that polearms should be as OP in-game as they were IRL, but their propensity to break eventually because that's what wood does should be in there too.
Yeah, durability needs to exist to balance Polearms/Spears just from a game design perspective. The current method of balancing, making them absolutely worthless on a thrust or just not balancing them whatsoever is just silly. You carried a sidearm because your polearm would 100% break if the battle went on long enough. Dudes in armor, even small medieval dudes, easily weigh 200 lbs a pop, you can only kebab so many of them before wood gives out.

This is all a digression as there is no way this can happen, but a good note for other people designing games out there.
 
Yeah, durability needs to exist to balance Polearms/Spears just from a game design perspective. The current method of balancing, making them absolutely worthless on a thrust or just not balancing them whatsoever is just silly. You carried a sidearm because your polearm would 100% break if the battle went on long enough. Dudes in armor, even small medieval dudes, easily weigh 200 lbs a pop, you can only kebab so many of them before wood gives out.

This is all a digression as there is no way this can happen, but a good note for other people designing games out there.
I haven't had a peek at the code, but I'm sure it's possible. There was weapon breakage in VC, no? Or at least that was moddable?

I'm also sure it won't happen because the devs are allergic to changing anything about The Vision, even when it conflicts with what 90% of the players want.

Just to be clear, though, I think it should work the same as shields and ammunition: breaks in combat, but comes back good as new immediately afterwards. At least that's how it should be if we're sticking with the moronically-high prices that we've got now.

It would be a remarkably different game and more realistic if they cut the prices down to size and we had to plan for weapon breakage with backup weapons, but my guess is that it would get old pretty quick - just one more janky micro system to keep up with.
 
I haven't had a peek at the code, but I'm sure it's possible. There was weapon breakage in VC, no? Or at least that was moddable?

Balancing weapon breaking mechanics is useless IMO. Just using Warband mods as an example, most people I have seen on the internet hated this mechanic, and the mods offered an option to disable it altogether due to the scale of this complaints. In VC was even an skill, which translates into another "tax skill" like Inventory Management that will suck the fun of playing unless you leveled it up, limiting builds.
 
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