Cavalry Tips

[Talii]

Basicly, it cuts down to identifying your advantages, and play accordingly. If you are playing as light cavalry, use your speed to manouver and hit the enemy in the back.

When playing as a lancer, you only to fear getting stopped and ranged fire. Use your lance to keep those fast, pesky hussars away. If playing solo, try not to couch all to much. If you're in a lb, use the couch versus braced bayonets, or enemies with their back to you.

If you're playing as heavy Cav, you can actually afford a frontal charge, but flanks or rear is still prefered.

However, keep in mind that manouvering and surprising the enemy is more important then any class advantage. In order to demonstrate, please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFp9yiU5uq4&list=UUjDRjz7kJYcb97xu6kESfuw&index=18&feature=plcp about 3:20-4:00 in this Video. It might be from M&M, but seeing how "Lancers were OP" back then, it really doesnt matter.

If you are playing on a pub server, i find sticking to your teammates really effective. Wait for them to get the enemies attention, then run in and either bump the enemy, giving your friendies a easy kill or kill him yourself. Oh, and remember, its only a killsteal if your teammate can present a document of enemy ownership. For all other instances, kill on.

 

[rejenorst]

Yeah I was so happy on Strangefields, I had charged to the end of the field with a few Russians and we engaged the enemy around their cannons in melee, suffice to say I killed two and was fighting off another Austrian when a cav came up behind him and killed him. I thanked him for it.

 

[-Horris-]

Ive also noticed that riders can be knocked off their horse (without the horse dying) but I am not sure how random it is.

15% chance

 

[_Hanzo_]

When i play cavalry and actually do 'ok' as them I tend to prefer flanking regardless of light/medium/heavy just always works best in my opinion.

Also it's a little low but choose cavalry which matches the enemy colours sometimes , you blend in quite well

 

[Lord Serius]

I love playing cavalry. Sadly in my regiment there's not too many yet, so I have to lone wolf it. People say it's botched, but I don't believe it. The amount of kills I'm able to get compared to infantry if I play it out right is much more.

 

[Greentiny]

I would just like to say, love this thread, very nice and helpful with lots of good stuff.

I play cavalry ALL THE TIME and I never used to but I have really got into it. I am the leader of a dragoon regiment and I really enjoy the tactics in linebattles and the potential, I find it much more enjoyable than line or skirmishers. With every class it is all about how you play not what you play. I have seen many people saying that backstabbing with cavalry is the only valid option and yes, I would agree it is the easiest and safest option and that is what I do with my boiis in linebattles. If you think about it, backstabbing is the best tactic and the most ideal, however it is the most common and valid with cavalry because it is so much more doable with the fast movement and maneuverability.
 
However, there are various ways to play different cavalry classes as has been said already and I am by no means an expert at all in anything, but infantry to me is just very easy and boring. Cavalry is more fast paced, exciting and challenging. Trying to get kills on infantry with polearms and guns is very difficult, especially when you are outnumbered, but it is so much more rewarding than being infantry.

Going back to my regiment in linebattles, the main tactic that I use is to wait for an enemy line to charge another line or at least be focused on my allies and then I tell my guys to charge them in the back or the flank but only to go for one pass and keep going so that we do not fully engage and the line infantry has not got time to reload and organise themselves into a proper defense. It is a great tactic for making cavalry last longer than one charge.

 

[Horsa]

I am sorry but I don't see how those videos help, they just show the average guy on a horse doing what everybody does, just go around killing noobs with all the limits cav involves. It doesn't seem to me like you're using any tactic or strategy in particular but backstabbing and kill stealing (In the sense you kill something that isn't fighting you).

I am not saying this thread is useless but it seems a like a big talk for nothing. Videos explaining how to tank and fight with different attacks on horse, like backwards slashing, bumpslashing, chambering on horse would be far more helpful imo.

 

[BetaKnight]

SHow me a video of a LB with cav and ill think of something

 

[rejenorst]

I am sorry but I don't see how those videos help, they just show the average guy on a horse doing what everybody does, just go around killing noobs with all the limits cav involves. It doesn't seem to me like you're using any tactic or strategy in particular but backstabbing and kill stealing (In the sense you kill something that isn't fighting you).

Strategy is not a tactic and is used more on a grand scale, strategy is the broad or long term plan of any engagement while tactic is the short term/ narrow plan of a unit/regiment. The tactic is to flank and the strategy is a pincer movement between infantry and cav. GRANTED: The vids are extremely basic and the servers are pub so generally I don't have a lot of players to work with in order to do much in the name of strategy. Like I said; if I get an opportunity to make some better vids then I will but this is a starter set of tips and I have already pointed to the historical validity of said backstabbing.

The videos I've posted aren't about how to swing a sword but more on the timing of attacks and general survival tips for new comers. I can post something more in depth if you like but you seem better than me at cav so why not make a vid yourself?

I am not saying this thread is useless but it seems a like a big talk for nothing. Videos explaining how to tank and fight with different attacks on horse, like backwards slashing, bumpslashing, chambering on horse would be far more helpful imo.

I absolutely agree with you which is why the video descriptions say "basic" or "extremely basic" tips. For experienced cav people its superfluous. Now stop *****ing and post more tips!!

I tried my hand at the last tip you posted (slow down and down block (if the enemy is bayoneting you thrust wise.) This seemed to help especially when I had to turn the horse sideways so that the horse's head was facing away from the enemy. Please post more tips like that

 

[Jaochai]

Here's my question for the experts:

Dogfighting.  A battle between two cavaliers in an open area that allows for maneuvering.  What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different types of cavaliers?  How do you defeat the different types of cavaliers?  What are the ideal attack patterns?  My experience in this regard is meager, but I understand it as follows:

Hussar:  The key here is unhorsing; the only reliable way to defeat a hussar as a hussar is to swipe off their horse.  There are two ways you can do this - you can tailgate them by taking a position immediately behind and to one side and whittling down their horse, or you can cross their T and make them slam into you.  Obviously, this tactic will have limited use if you're fighting a lancer.  Knocking them down and then coming around for the kill is the best option, I think.

Lancer:  Unless you're fighting another lancer, the best choice is obviously to head-on, though evasive action may be necessary to avoid gunfire.

Dragoon:  Dragoons are best at dogfights, I think, because they can shoot out the enemy horse.  Just remember that you can only shoot left!

Cuirasseur:  Cross the T; it's your only hope.

 

[piwikiwi]

Here's my question for the experts:

Dogfighting.  A battle between two cavaliers in an open area that allows for maneuvering.  What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different types of cavaliers?  How do you defeat the different types of cavaliers?  What are the ideal attack patterns?  My experience in this regard is meager, but I understand it as follows:

Hussar:  The key here is unhorsing; the only reliable way to defeat a hussar as a hussar is to swipe off their horse.  There are two ways you can do this - you can tailgate them by taking a position immediately behind and to one side and whittling down their horse, or you can cross their T and make them slam into you.  Obviously, this tactic will have limited use if you're fighting a lancer.  Knocking them down and then coming around for the kill is the best option, I think.

Lancer:  Unless you're fighting another lancer, the best choice is obviously to head-on, though evasive action may be necessary to avoid gunfire.

Dragoon:  Dragoons are best at dogfights, I think, because they can shoot out the enemy horse.  Just remember that you can only shoot left!

Cuirasseur:  Cross the T; it's your only hope.

I kind of disagree with this, for me the dragoon is on of the hardest because the cav musket/carbine are very inaccurate when riding. I play hussar, cuirassier and dragoon and I have the most trouble fighting against lancers because of their range. I find the cuirassier the easiest to kill other cav with because of the range of the sword.

 

[rejenorst]

For those interested in the cavalry vs infantry debate:

EXCERPTS FROM A U.S. BAYONET MANUAL 1852

http://www.7thmichigan.us/manuals/Bayonet.pdf

Preface - The power of the bayonet

Spoiler

Gomard lays it down as a principle, that
the most formidable antagonist an infantry
soldier can encounter is an infantry soldier;
that the bayonet is more formidable than
either the lance or the sabre. This assertion
may seem surprising, but trial will convince
any one of its truth, and of the consequent
fact that an infantry soldier who can parry
the attacks of a well-drilled infantry soldier
has nothing to fear from a cavalry soldier,
because simple variations of the parries
against infantry are perfectly effective against
the sabre and lance, e.g. the parries in high
tierce and high quarte.
The work of Gomard was translated by
the author of the present work about two
years ago, and taught by him to the noncommissioned
officers of the company of sappers
with which he was then on duty. The
non-commissioned officers soon became competent
to instruct the men, and the system
was in successful operation when the author
was relieved from duty with the company.

Instance of two men vs 25 cav

Spoiler

It will be proper to remark that any system
of fencing with the bayonet can, in service,
have its full and direct application
only when the men are isolated, or in very
open order; as, for instance, when employed
as skirmishers, in assaulting breaches, fieldworks,
or batteries, or when broken by cavalry,
etc. etc. When in the habitual formation,
as infantry of the line, the small interval
allowed each file, and the method of
action of masses, will prevent the possibility,
or necessity, of the employment of much
individual address; but even then, in the
shock of a charge, or when awaiting the attack
of cavalry, the men will surely be more
steady and composed, from the consciousness
of the fact that they can make good use of
their bayonets, and easily protect their persons
against everything but balls.
There is an instance on record of a French
grenadier, who, in the battle of Polotsk, defended
himself, with his bayonet, against the
simultaneous attack of eleven Russian grenadiers,
eight of whom he killed. In the battle
of Sanguessa, two soldiers of Abbe*'s division
defended themselves, with their bayonets,
against twenty-five Spanish cavalry, and,
after having inflicted several severe wounds,
rejoined their regiment without a scratch.
At that period there was little or no regular
instruction in the use of the bayonet.

The thrust and lunge-out vs cavalry:

Spoiler

The use of the arms is independent of the
use of the legs; the first is often sufficient to
reach the body of the adversary. There are
three methods of using the arms the thrust,
the lunge, the lunge-out.
Of these Uiree the thrust is the best, because,
since the hands retain their usual position
on the piece, the aim is more certain,
and the parry of a riposte easier; the thrust
should, therefore, be used whenever the disfance
of the antagonist will permit it.
The lunge reaches as far as the thrust with
the development; it is a very rapid and quite
sure blow far preferable to the lunge-out;
it, however, exposes the fencer to a quick
riposte, which would be difficult to parry,
especially on the outside.
The lunge-out reaches farther than either
of the preceding, but it throws the piece so
completely out of control, that it should only
be used against an antagonist who cannot
riposte, or is endeavoring to escape; it may
be used with advantage against the horse of
a cavalry soldier, to keep him at a distance.

And finally the Battle of Minden quote:

Marshal Contades is reputed to have said bitterly after the battle: “I never thought to see a single line of infantry break through three lines of cavalry ranked in order of battle and tumble them to ruin.”

Source:
Minden: an iconic victory for the "Minden" Regiments who advanced to battle with white roses in their hats, plucked from the hedgerows, and repelled the attacks of French cavalry.
http://www.britishbattles.com/seven-years/minden.htm


My view is that there are so many factors that can determine success or loss in battle that its impossible to factor them all into gameplay but for every scenario there are constantly differing outcomes:

Spoiler

In conclusion, most cavalry vs. cavalry and cavalry vs. infantry interactions were probably decided before the two sides came into contact, but it is not improbable that at least some cavalry units were actually able to charge and come into contact with unbroken infantry. The greatest doubt lies in the who, the where, and the when--though it is clear that contact followed by hand-to-hand fighting between two unbroken lines was generally the exception among infantry-cavalry interactions, it is not an easy matter to decide how prevalent these exceptional cases were. I think nobody would disagree if I say that we still need a great deal more research before we can resolve that doubt. http://l-clausewitz.livejournal.com/141888.html

 

 

[Leberecht Reinhold]

If the dragoon has a musketoon they must do really bad things to lose vs any other kind of cavalry.

Dogfighting usually involves some feinting and moving to a side trying to kill the enemy in one fast swipe. The heavy cav is good because of their long swords, but they suck so much on foot (all cav does, too slow). Against hussars you can go slow and only speed up and kill them directly (if you are cuirasser), and against cav you should go as fast as you can. In general, dogfighting is all about calculating reach and dodging.

It usually popular on the duel server, but there is too many ****ty maps to do it (usually its only done in Le Haye).

 

[piwikiwi]

Any tips against lancers?

 

[Horsa]

Lancers are somewaht easier to kill with heavy cavalry, you go in frontally block down and slow down until you're in front fo them, you stop their horse and slash, they can't block so a hit on the head is enough.

 

[Leberecht Reinhold]

The lancer will never aim for you, but for your horse. In a headon charge the lancer will win for sure. That said, if you can force the fight to go side-by-side (which is quite often), then you are done.

 

[inkybinky]

Greentiny I agree with you to a point, if you have the upper hand. Keep the shock factor and chop away, if your alone and you know they are on to you... well... bolt

As a Hussar the only time I really go after infantry is when I am sure they have fired their shots, the same for Dragoons. If you cannot surprise them it's always better to lurk outside their range and wait for that puff of white smoke that shows they have discharged.

This is especially important if you are going after more then one since an attentive shooter with a loaded gun can easily put you down. Be aware however of some infantry players who pretend not to notice you but infact use a 3rd person camera view to track you as you come up behind them.

Personally I don't get the Dragoon, I can play it but I honestly think it's an overpowered class (especially if you have a masktoon or if your mounted on a light horse) you can hack away at people with your sword like normal Calvary and if anybody gives you trouble... just shoot them. This is the ultimate infantry killer. Lurk and wait til they are reloading then ride up and shoot them in the face ride away... repeat, doing this you can reap defenseless infantry.

The above however requires the most important aspect of anybody playing Calvary, be patient and wait for the right moment, it's to easy to go charging into glory and a hail of muskets or bayonets. That is of course unless you are running distraction for your own infantry or simply going for their cannons.

 

[Pelgrane]

Hussar:  The key here is unhorsing; the only reliable way to defeat a hussar as a hussar is to swipe off their horse.  There are two ways you can do this - you can tailgate them by taking a position immediately behind and to one side and whittling down their horse, or you can cross their T and make them slam into you.  Obviously, this tactic will have limited use if you're fighting a lancer.  Knocking them down and then coming around for the kill is the best option, I think.

1. Crossing the T is a perfectly viable tactic against the lancer and was really the ONLY tactic in MM. Now that lancers are pathetic it's not even necessary. Crossing the T against a heavy or even another hussar is actually more tricky, as they can outreach you with an overhead or a stab if you're not careful.

The best way to get another hussar is to come straight at him, letting your horses pass each other on the right, and time your sabre attack better than he times his. As simple as that.

2. Lancer:  Lancers used to be a serious opponent in MM, and a very good lancer downed was the epitome of achievement for any hussar (now, any noob with a bayonet who is aware of you would be the same level of difficulty). Naturally, they were even better than that in real history. In NW however, with the lance being shorter, slower, and plain clumsy, they are a waste of a cavalry slot. They have ONE neat trick against infantry that allows you to beat very foolish, very eager bayonet enthusiasts and nobody else.

As a heavy, ride straight at the lancer unless his lance is couched. Last moment, turn the horse sideways and block down. His lance (which if he was any good was aimed at your horse's head) is now aimed at you, and has met the magic downblock. As a result of that he is now stopped and helpless. Hit him overhead, repeat if necessary, and he is dead. IF his lance is couched, get a parallel approach on the other side of the horse that the lance is on, left sided attack, dead lancer.

As a hussar, you can either cross the T at a comfortable range, swerve in and cut the horse from under him, or simply ride straight at him, making plans to let the horses pass by each other. As long as the lance is on the other side of the horse than you are, he CANNOT chase you with the point fast enough. Make a left-sided attack and claim a free kill, same as vs. a couched lance.

If you face a canny one and cannot have a perfectly parrallel approach, you pretend you're coming at him, then slow down/stop, let him pass by, then fall in behind him and cut him out of the saddle. Your horses are now mostly faster, whereas in MM Cossacks and Uhlans were fast enough to get away.

If you really must, you can use the same tactics as a heavy. I won't even get into backswings and the stuff that can do to a linear attacker.

If you ARE a lancer, get out your sabre and do what I described for hussar, unless you're confident you're better at the lancing thing than the other guy, in which case do whatever.

3. Dragoon:

A dragoon is a lancer with a lance that has infinite range. That makes him better than a lancer in almost all situations. Wait for him to discharge at someone else, or pray that he misses, then calmly ride up and kill him. If he starts behaving like a hussar after firing, he knows what he's doing. Be wary, and treat him as another hussar on a slower horse.

4. Heavies: DO NOT LET THEM RUN INTO YOU. It becomes totally unfair instantly. They have the only halfway respectable swords in the game, and most other classes have horses made of glass and lace. You will be dismounted, disable due to dismounting, and hit over the head repeatedly, even if you hit him or his horse 3 time before he hits you. Which, chances are, is too much to ask for to start with.

How to beat one: if you can time swings better than he can, it's very easy. Despite the longer reach he needs to swing earlier to reach you first. Approach from a slight deviation from 45 degrees, swing in to be almost parallel, and swing your sabre over the right side, high, before he swings his. Goes down like an expensive waste of horseflesh and training. If you feel like you got the angle wrong and this won't work, pull back and repeat. Most heavies feel they know what they're doing and will give you your passes if you keep asking for them.

Failing that, cutting the horse still works fine, and of course they can be chased down very easily for attacks from behind. Just watch out for backswings.

 

[Pelgrane]

As a reply to the pretty but misleading theorising about different cavalry types, here's my view:

Hussar is the best and only cav type you need.

Heavies and lancers have one trick apiece that lets you beat the eager beavers with bayonets, but neither are worth losing the speed for. A Dragoon is a totally different kind of lizard and I am not that good at shooting.

What is a cavalryman to do in NW? Well, you're actually doing the server a public service. In Battle mode, you are there to kill people who are for various reasons not really contributing to anything decisive and are thus simply slowing down the game. In Deathmatch, you are simply there to grab kills from the same players who would have fed kills to any opponent regardless, especially one with a bayonet. The only thing you have is your speed. Your speed lets you seek these people out wherever they are spawned, and kill them, faster than a bayonet pro would.

You will not have the same kill rate as a bayonet pro, however, if you were being fed targets at an equal rate, so don't even try and don't feel too superior if your K/D is better. It's only that way because he cannot move around as fast as you can.

So who should/could a hussar kill? Well, you're no eagle. You're a buzzard. Here's a list, in order

1. AFKs other people have already horse-bumped and thus confirmed as AFKs. Don't want nasty surprises!
2. Musicians playing music and arty men reloading cannons from the front.
3. People who insist on reloading the musket or the schtutzer while staring at oncoming cavalry
4. People who hide behind barricades and stones, blissfully reloading like they were the last man in Waterloo
5. Newly spawned folks who are blinking at the bright lights or whatever it is that newly spawned people do before they are moving.
6. People who are already for whatever reason knocked down and you can time your saber's arrival to match their standing upright.
7. People who decided to shoot you point plank and missed, instead of sensibly fixing the bayonet to one-shot you
8. People who already swing and missed with the bayonet at someone else. This is also known as backstabbing and killstealing. I call it success.

9. People who are moving towards a goal with purpose and spring in their step. DO NOT APPROACH FROM BEHIND, some of them have awareness and will spin-stab you. Approach at a T from his right side after pretending to follow from behind for a little while. Then cut them across the face with a left slash. The spin-stab cannot get you then.

---

Stuff that you may fight if you feel you're in the good-to-amazing range of cavalry skills:

1. Other cav
2. Jaegers who know you're there and even got their rifles gripped like baseball bats
3. Russian militia with no pikes
4. Sappers

---

Stuff you should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER fight:

1. Anyone with a bayonet or a pike who's clearly seen you
2. Anyone with a bayonet in overhead strike position even if you think you were stealthy
3. Anyone with a bayonet who is spinning, regardless of what they've seen or not
4. Anyone in a combat with more than two people. Death by friendly stabbing estimated at 50%, dehorsing at 90%.
5. Anyone with any kind of drawn weapon whatsoever that's aware of you and standing next to any kind of obstacle. That means about 50% of everyone on every map. Live with it, noble buzzard.
6. In general, anyone who can defend themselves.

Finally:

Swerve. Dance on your horse, even if no musketeer is watching. Especially if no musketeer is watching. That's exactly when they're watching the hardest. Swerve all the time. Never ride in a straight line.

DO NOT ride along with other friendly cav. They are simply going to get in front of you and make your horse rear, letting that jaeger rifle-snipe you from the bushes. Also, chances are they cannot swerve as well as you can.

DO NOT fight other cav for kills. DO NOT both go for the same target, you will both get dehorsed.

Never stop or double back. So what if every other of your sabre strokes doesn't kill that jaeger, it's not worth it. Keep riding. You will come back after circling the entire map anyway, and the dead weight will allow you do try again. As a cavalryman, you simply cannot kill anyone who isn't already destined to die, and if the only thing that matters is the rate at which you encounter such targets, speed beats everything. That's why hussars are the only horse anyone ever needs.

 

[Talii]

2. Lancer:  Lancers used to be a serious opponent in MM, and a very good lancer downed was the epitome of achievement for any hussar (now, any noob with a bayonet who is aware of you would be the same level of difficulty). Naturally, they were even better than that in real history. In NW however, with the lance being shorter, slower, and plain clumsy, they are a waste of a cavalry slot. They have ONE neat trick against infantry that allows you to beat very foolish, very eager bayonet enthusiasts and nobody else.

I really must disagree. We've done some training with a few big infantry regiments, were they knew we were coming. So, while outnumbered, outgunned ( They did not shoot all of the rounds though) and not having the element of surprise, we emerged victorious almost every sweep through them.  Of course, in a pub battle players are not going to tighten up into a formation, but Lancers arent as bad as you make them sound.
They have been nerfed, and while there already is a thread to discuss this, It now requires more skill to get good at lancing then it did in MM, where you easily could get decent, but becoming good was a bit harder. Now, you no longer can trust superior range you could in MM, we're you could outrange  everything, spare Spears and Pikes. But I need to, again, mention the big difference between playing cavlary in a organized linebattle and playing as cavalry in a public server. And ironically, killing infantry in tight formations is a lot easier then killing them dispersed.