Cavalry charging push enemies, but hit nothing.

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Hi,

Just a thread to point out that using heavy cav in a charge is just pushing the enemies but is not killing anyone with their lances.
In fact I have to use melee units to do the kills while cav is just running through enemy blob just doing charge damages.
An exemple, I was using cav for a total of 3 times more units than the whole enemy army (mostly infantry), cav killed 2 enemies in like 3 charges and my melee troops killed 45 while being 4 times less than cav.
Final thoughts horses are smarter than their riders which are just thrusting spears in the air looking like a courtship ritual but not opposing a real threat. I only use cav to deal waves of 15 damages in the enemy lines -_-
I don't know if it is for a balance purpose, but doing it this way seems too obvious.
Thanks.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
My explanation based on nothing is that the TW bosses and friends get together and play Captain mode together and one of the bosses gets beat up by Cav bots and he goes "NOOOOOOOOOO NOT FAIR NERF THEM AGAIN" and so they do and that's how it comes to be that Cav AI can barely hit anything, even after 2 years of patches and people complaining about it. It has, sometimes gotten slightly better, but then made worse again in the next update.
 

Bluko88

Veteran
Hi,

Just a thread to point out that using heavy cav in a charge is just pushing the enemies but is not killing anyone with their lances.
In fact I have to use melee units to do the kills while cav is just running through enemy blob just doing charge damages.
An exemple, I was using cav for a total of 3 times more units than the whole enemy army (mostly infantry), cav killed 2 enemies in like 3 charges and my melee troops killed 45 while being 4 times less than cav.
Final thoughts horses are smarter than their riders which are just thrusting spears in the air looking like a courtship ritual but not opposing a real threat. I only use cav to deal waves of 15 damages in the enemy lines -_-
I don't know if it is for a balance purpose, but doing it this way seems too obvious.
Thanks.
I think cavalrymen in Calradia have eye sight comparable to Hans Moleman:

It might be a balance thing, but given how much A.I. is straight up lifted from Warband probably just the same code.
 
Yes the cav based unit skills are so much downgraded compared to archery based unit skills. I mean in difficulty bannerlord all archers have aim bots and on the other side cav can't even do a charge for more than 4 kills with lances even outnumbering the enemies.
I know now why so many people like to play a fat archer on a horse, or a full Fiann party in the campaign.
I mean it's not a circle like archers beats infantry, infantry beat cav, cav beat archers, it's more like everyone beat cav.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
Even with mods they are useless, they charge, fail the most of attacks and run 500 meters before turn around and attack again, even when I order to charge against fleeing enemies, they still running at same high speed and barley hit one.
 

BruisedByGod

Recruit
This is still my biggest problem with the game as well. Every time I spend a few hours getting into a campaign and amassing a decent army with some elite heavy cav watching its performance on the field makes me want to quit immediately. Even when painstakingly micro'd elite noble cavalry (which should be the highlight of their faction) do no damage while the standard infantry and archers do all the damage.
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
The issue begins and ends with the cav pushing every foot unit aside. If they are made stronger at offensive, nothing can stop them, if they are made weaker, we get the "car wash" effect ppl have been complaining about. Now, their poor aim seems to be tied to bad hitboxes which we players also suffer from. - Try to couch a lance and aim the tip directly at your target -> surprise surprise! YOU MISSED!
Try to hit anything in front of your horse's head, even if you're using a 5km long polearm -> surprise surprise! YOU MISSED!

🤷‍♂️ :lol:

I particularly hate dealing with cav because we don't have proper pike bracing and all formations do is place units into certain positions - there are no organized attacks or defenses, they either sit there and attack whomever enters range individually, or they sit there with raised shields like idiots. Now, supposedly, if they fix hitboxes and tone down the "push aside" effect, cav should work again but it'll be OP just as in WB - That because they won't miss due to pushing the target accidentally, and they won't miss due to nonsensical hitboxes (where they get bullseye aim but the weapon attack animation places the hitboxes on their arses). To remove the WB swadian f1 f3 effect the game must keep some of the push aside effect, but more importantly, make formations do something useful and place a separate command for pike bracing - hell, the base game should have an entire command tree for tactical fighting we don't even have the "10 paces forward / 10 paces backward" anymore.... As for push aside, any tight formations should immediately stop cavalry units, instead they wash into the middle of the formation 100% of the time until getting stopped, and that if there are absolutely zero gaps, with any minor gaps they often just go through with some dmg. It's bonkers stupid

Let's get technical -> if a cav unit charges headon into a shield wall, they'd be fked - in BL most of the unit will just pass through np.
If a cav unit charges head on into a square formation - the entire unit should die, what happens is that a few get stuck in the middle and just wreak havock in the formation by disorganizing it, others pass through mostly unscathed and a couple gets properly stuck unable to go through...

This crap needs fixing, the entire crap I mean, not just cav.
 
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I finally stopped my campaign cuz forced to full spam Fiann army to do anything good in the battlefield. Boring asf, going back to modding i guess. Ah, wait no i can't cuz the modding tools are throwing random errors all the time when clicking buttons or opening native scenes ending in crashing the tools. But that deserve its own thread.
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
I finally stopped my campaign cuz forced to full spam Fiann army to do anything good in the battlefield. Boring asf, going back to modding i guess. Ah, wait no i can't cuz the modding tools are throwing random errors all the time when clicking buttons or opening native scenes ending in crashing the tools. But that deserve its own thread.
errrmmm... here some recommendations:

I actually use 3x that amount of mods just to fix 1.8 into what I can consider playable state, but here ya go, the ones that fix crashes, some quality of life tools and the single one that covers all combat instances and improves the experience (doesn't fix issues, just mitigates them) - the only negative side effect imo comes from RBM regarding the companion hiring prices which skyrocket with the mod
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
errrmmm... here some recommendations:

I actually use 3x that amount of mods just to fix 1.8 into what I can consider playable state, but here ya go, the ones that fix crashes, some quality of life tools and the single one that covers all combat instances and improves the experience (doesn't fix issues, just mitigates them) - the only negative side effect imo comes from RBM regarding the companion hiring prices which skyrocket with the mod
But that only highlights how badly this game isnt calibrated. Its up to the Developers to give us a tightly or at least decently calibrated game. This is one of the drawbacks of "platform" type games -the devs will just go the easy route out and say "well -grab a mod if you dont like it". Of course they wont actually say that -their voice comes in the inaction of wanting to present a finely tuned game.

I
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
But that only highlights how badly this game isnt calibrated. Its up to the Developers to give us a tightly or at least decently calibrated game. This is one of the drawbacks of "platform" type games -the devs will just go the easy route out and say "well -grab a mod if you dont like it". Of course they wont actually say that -their voice comes in the inaction of wanting to present a finely tuned game.

I
I never defended TW, I was simply trying to help the guy improve his own experience :wink:
 
Hi,

Just a thread to point out that using heavy cav in a charge is just pushing the enemies but is not killing anyone with their lances.
In fact I have to use melee units to do the kills while cav is just running through enemy blob just doing charge damages.
An exemple, I was using cav for a total of 3 times more units than the whole enemy army (mostly infantry), cav killed 2 enemies in like 3 charges and my melee troops killed 45 while being 4 times less than cav.
Final thoughts horses are smarter than their riders which are just thrusting spears in the air looking like a courtship ritual but not opposing a real threat. I only use cav to deal waves of 15 damages in the enemy lines -_-
I don't know if it is for a balance purpose, but doing it this way seems too obvious.
Thanks.
ever since they removed the ability for ai to run full speed when told to move to a position cav has been ded to me. Charging them makes them scatter all over the place and get picked off too much for my liking. Now there is literally no reason to run them under any circumstance considering they all just straight up miss everyone now. I would like to see them revert the movement change from a while back and obviously fix whatever they did to them in the last patch.
 

geala

Sergeant at Arms
Yes, cavalry is in a terrible state. It starts with there being a huge amount of too much cavalry around. Secondly, these cavalry masses are too cheap to maintain. The third problem is that single riders can go trough dense infantry formations. The fourth problem is that cavalry cannot hit reliably with thrusts; in my game they hit in about 10 to 15% of cases.

I'm currently thankful for the fourth problem, otherwise cavalry would be terribly op. Like in RBM where cavalry cannot hit too, but can charge every infantry unit to death with their bulldozer horses, leading to infantry-free battlefields where then heavily armored riders chase each other around endlessly.

A solution can only be found if all problems were tackled. Cavalry should be able to hit with thrusts but should normally not be able to ride through shieldwall formations. They should not crash into infantry formations to be stopped and killed either, but should try to hit them with thrusts.
Cavalry should be able to devastate infantry on the move and badly trained infantry (lets say T1 to T3) even in formation.
There should be perhaps a kind of very expensive cavalry able to ride down infantry despite long spears or pikes, like the Polish Hussars who were able to defeat even pike blocks (because their lances were longer than the pikes + they were excellently trained and motivated + had awesome horses), however that would be difficult to balance.

A solution however will not happen, f.e. because of the stupid tier leveling system, the mixture of units, the inability to keep and use formations, the inability to make finances relevant for the AI without strangling it, the inability to make finances able to be a restriction for the player. In the end probably cavalry will be hitting better, than we get the same unbalanced nonsense Warband was.
 
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