Cav is OP -Lesler (LORD OF CAV)

[LES IS MOREx]

Wanted to jump in on this - played hundreds of hours of Warband online - recently got Bannerlord. I could not believe however INSANELY over powered the cavalry units have become. Team death match has become almost unplayable online due to the prevalence of cav. Back in Warband cav were powerful however 1 well aimed spear/pike strike and you had a good chance to stop the rider dead then slay the horse/force a dismount. In Bannerlord it seems WAY more difficult to land a hit with the spears, a few times I have hit the horse and I can strike it 2 or 3 times and the rider still has time to EASILY turn and ride away. This is ridiculous. I totally agree that the horse HP needs a big nerf. Secondly - the speed. Good lord. Compared to Warband the jump in horse speed is almost comical. I've had cav ride at me head on and I do not have enough time to even being to nock an arrow to hit them. If I do survive getting lanced by the 15 cav players on the enemy team the horses are so fast that I have almost no chance for a counter attack. Tale Words please for the love of all that is good (read: Bannerlord multiplayer) sort this out. It's a real issue and needs fixing in order to salvage the online multiplayer which, from what I can tell, is already much depleted from the Warband days.

*EDIT - the couching also needs to be nerfed. Get rid of infinite couch and make it a bit more tricksy like Warband. To be honest just make horses the same as warband - they seemed to function fine as the glass cannon that was previously mentioned

I SWEAR TO GOD if tale worlds took your advice id uninstall lmao. Horses in this game mechanically are the best in the history of horses in games. Cav in this game feels like you're actually riding an animal verses a car shaped horse. They cannot just turn on a dime by merely holding a or d down but you have to double tap S with every single angle over 22 1/2 degrees to make the turn. Couch lancing does not need a nerf at all but a buff its not OP even slightly it needs to insta kill. In current state you do not have "infinite couch" the speed threshold is super high as well, meaning you can only couch in a very straight line not being able to readjust aim easily. Warband cavalry was amazing when it came out but compared to bannerlord we are talking Mosin Nagant vs AK47 In terms of quality mechanics. I dont think I could be any happier with the triple tap S or W/E mechanics it gives you the perfect amount of float and control to make it realistic. They did a superb job on the horses in this game and deserve a lot of credit id say its their greatest accomplishment so far. Go play bannerlord cav for 20 mins and then go back to warband and realize how grabo it is. I cannot believe how I played 6 thousand hours of that **** lmao.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Horses in BL drifting at top speed look more like cars than anything in WB lol. They also float over bumps terrain and some ramps or rubble. Overall WB was janky but their horses looked more natural and impacted by the game world.

 

[hoonii]

Can you guys please stop complaining about how "unbalanced" tdm is please. Taking tdm as the base for balancing would **** the game sideways.

 

[-Horris-]

Horses in BL drifting at top speed look more like cars than anything in WB lol. They also float over bumps terrain and some ramps or rubble. Overall WB was janky but their horses looked more natural and impacted by the game world.

BL cav clips make for better car movies than Fast & Furious 5 and on. The drifting is real...

 

[jon01]

I SWEAR TO GOD if tale worlds took your advice id uninstall lmao. Horses in this game mechanically are the best in the history of horses in games. Cav in this game feels like you're actually riding an animal verses a car shaped horse. They cannot just turn on a dime by merely holding a or d down but you have to double tap S with every single angle over 22 1/2 degrees to make the turn. Couch lancing does not need a nerf at all but a buff its not OP even slightly it needs to insta kill. In current state you do not have "infinite couch" the speed threshold is super high as well, meaning you can only couch in a very straight line not being able to readjust aim easily. Warband cavalry was amazing when it came out but compared to bannerlord we are talking Mosin Nagant vs AK47 In terms of quality mechanics. I dont think I could be any happier with the triple tap S or W/E mechanics it gives you the perfect amount of float and control to make it realistic. They did a superb job on the horses in this game and deserve a lot of credit id say its their greatest accomplishment so far. Go play bannerlord cav for 20 mins and then go back to warband and realize how grabo it is. I cannot believe how I played 6 thousand hours of that **** lmao.

I enjoy the cavalry mechanics in Bannerlord, especially the double-tapping, and the animation looks great. Not all of it is good, but there are things there that are a genuine example of something different yet good in its own right.

However, I think you're being too harsh on Warband's horses. While the animation and graphics aren't pretty, at a more-than-noob level it's just as good in its own right mechanically.

I did exactly what you recommended: I played Bannerlord solidly for a month, came to enjoy some of the new mechanics, and then returned to Warband and tried out its cavalry again. I was so used to Bannerlord that I kept spamming F to spawn and expected to direct my shield and stuff, but I ended up having a really good time (not out of nostalgia whatsoever).

I liked how you could block other cavalry to good effect, the lower HP and getting stopped more easily made for more sensible gameplay, the jumping was a lot more responsive and functional, and interaction with players on the ground was less sloppy and inconsistently messy. The only thing I disapproved of (that I've always disliked) was the cavalry shield mechanics, when rotating on horseback and sponging melee attacks.

This was the exact (casual/TDM) recording last year where I tried Warband cavalry straight after Bannerlord:



Watching the part of the video where I'm dismounted (00:33) also reminds me of how stupidly ridiculous infantry vs cavalry is in Bannerlord. While there are things I like about cavalry in both games, I think Warband's works while managing to remain somewhat more balanced, and I'd like to see TW reserve the fun-factor while making tweaks to turn it into something less absurd and more reasonable overall.

 

[Gibby Jr]

I SWEAR TO GOD if tale worlds took your advice id uninstall lmao. Horses in this game mechanically are the best in the history of horses in games. Cav in this game feels like you're actually riding an animal verses a car shaped horse. They cannot just turn on a dime by merely holding a or d down but you have to double tap S with every single angle over 22 1/2 degrees to make the turn. Couch lancing does not need a nerf at all but a buff its not OP even slightly it needs to insta kill. In current state you do not have "infinite couch" the speed threshold is super high as well, meaning you can only couch in a very straight line not being able to readjust aim easily. Warband cavalry was amazing when it came out but compared to bannerlord we are talking Mosin Nagant vs AK47 In terms of quality mechanics. I dont think I could be any happier with the triple tap S or W/E mechanics it gives you the perfect amount of float and control to make it realistic. They did a superb job on the horses in this game and deserve a lot of credit id say its their greatest accomplishment so far. Go play bannerlord cav for 20 mins and then go back to warband and realize how grabo it is. I cannot believe how I played 6 thousand hours of that **** lmao.

 

[MP_Erik]

I SWEAR TO GOD if tale worlds took your advice id uninstall lmao. Horses in this game mechanically are the best in the history of horses in games. Cav in this game feels like you're actually riding an animal verses a car shaped horse. They cannot just turn on a dime by merely holding a or d down but you have to double tap S with every single angle over 22 1/2 degrees to make the turn. Couch lancing does not need a nerf at all but a buff its not OP even slightly it needs to insta kill. In current state you do not have "infinite couch" the speed threshold is super high as well, meaning you can only couch in a very straight line not being able to readjust aim easily. Warband cavalry was amazing when it came out but compared to bannerlord we are talking Mosin Nagant vs AK47 In terms of quality mechanics. I dont think I could be any happier with the triple tap S or W/E mechanics it gives you the perfect amount of float and control to make it realistic. They did a superb job on the horses in this game and deserve a lot of credit id say its their greatest accomplishment so far. Go play bannerlord cav for 20 mins and then go back to warband and realize how grabo it is. I cannot believe how I played 6 thousand hours of that **** lmao.

Yes, riding in Bannerlord feels much better than in Warband and I would really regret if that feeling got nerfed away. "Drifting" is also great and certainly more adequate for a horse than for a car (real horses are even able to walk sideways and if your car starts to drift in normal street traffic there is really something going wrong).
I'm also fine with couch lancing, maybe it should even be made stronger as it requires precise riding, is easy to dodge and comes at the cost of reach making it easier to counter than the normal lance stab that outreaches most infantry spears.

I still think that Cavalry is overpowered compared to most other classes mostly due to the tanking a horse provides for the rider and the ability to doubletapp out of trouble to easily. I also have the feeling that some weapons have too generous hitboxes when used on horseback.

I think most of that can be fixed while preserving the better handling that makes riding in Bannerlord feel better than Warband.
Weapon hitboxes can be fixed and horses can be made permeable for attacks on the rider. Doubletapping is a bit more difficult but maybe there could be some delay that gives inf the opportunity to rear once again if the rider attempts to bump right through them.

 

[LANDALORE]

Stopping double tapping cav feels fine, its a massive punishment to cav if your inf is halfway decient. The fact you can rear the moment you double tap makes it really risky with more negatives than positives. Getting double reared is a death sentence, your best bet is to hold w to get out, but panicking cav will try to double tap w without a second thought.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

The fact you can rear the moment you double tap makes it really risky with more negatives than positives.

This is like, just completely refuted by spending a few mins seeing it in game. I very rarely see cav get double-reared, I far more often see them blast out at full speed diagonally away from the spearman.

 

[hoonii]

our best bet is to hold w to get out

If you get reared you don't try to go the same direction like a stubborn goat, you turn your horses head away from the spear and get a few unexpected stabs to the spearman if possible and go the other direction, away from the spear.
If you get reared, double w will probably kill you.

 

[LES IS MOREx]

We spoke and the devs heard us!!! Kinda i dont think the riders needed a nerf on armor

All Cavalries:

• Decreased health for all horses by 20.
• Decreased armour for cavalry:
  • -4 for light cavalry
  • -8 for heavy cavalry
• Increased couch lance damage. Made it more dependent on the weight of the weapon, rather than the mount speed.

 

[HoopsMcCann]

I think there are a couple of ways to make Cav more balanced without making them less fun (and without really nerfing them at high skill levels at all):

• Reduce horse acceleration (thereby making it easier for Inf to punish Cav mistakes, but not reducing the fun top speed)
• Award assist gold for horse damage and dismounts upon the death of the rider (Cav are so strong that damaging a horse, threatening and/or dismounting an enemy rider is pretty much the best thing you can do for your team)
• The problem with Cav is worse when they've got swung 2H polearms like Menavlions/Glaives. It would be realistic to reduce their agility/handling whenever the rider is using a 2H weapon and can't hold the reins. Historically lances/spears/1Hswords work well because you can hold the reins in your shield hand. Once again, this would nerf Cav 2H spam while still allowing skilled players with good tactical planning and map knowledge to shine

 

[Rick_Slick]

Boosting the movement speed of infantry would be an indirect nerf to cavalry as well. It's really frustating i can see cav approach and still not get out of the way.

 

[Einarcf]

Award assist gold for horse damage and dismounts upon the death of the rider (Cav are so strong that damaging a horse, threatening and/or dismounting an enemy rider is pretty much the best thing you can do for your team)

Good suggestion. Would work great in TDM, Siege and eventually Battle mode as well.

 

[Rick_Slick]

It's so frustrating to see people wanting all these ridiculous unfun salty nerfs when infantry movement speed just needs to be increased and Spears need fixed so they glance less often. Cav doesn't need nerf, infantry needs buff and archer needs nerf.