Cav Collision Mechanics

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Fabiano Caputo 说:
Hey Fortnight  :grin:

Of course all you say is right, although I really don't think they're planning add such complex mechanics, since horse hitting each other are not so common (at least in my battles), it's more like a very unlucky event, which yes, could be 100% spectacular and I'd love it, but I think they wanted to preserve playability over realism. Making every collision end up in a total deadly mess would make cav terribly
unconvenient to use.

Horse could instead have more free will to avoid trees, yes!

+1

Plus, it would be quite frustrating to loose control of your horse during battle just for realism's sake...
 
In terms of horse control, to take the 'realistic' approach really there should be clear differences between trained and untrained war horses. A knight or man at arms would have access to an excellent mount, bred especially for strength, stamina and trained to resist the hazards of war. A hobelar or similar would have a light and agile mount... but not much else. No horse likes fire much, or charging toward a solid mass or certain smells like blood or other animals; rearing and whinnying and causing temporary loss of control. The dedicated War Horses could have more resistance to this. 
 
Honved 说:
A horse should be able to make small adjustments in advance on its own to avoid an obstacle (the player recognizing those obstacles and turning the horse in advance will avoid unexpectedly having your aim spoiled).  The horse should have a tendency to make larger changes in both speed and direction in the face of impending disaster or impact, whether the rider likes it or not.  Such sudden changes by the horse should be reduced or made more gradual and further in advance with higher riding skill, and being able to make a lance charge or run down infantry without the horse freaking out should require at least moderate skill, or familiarity between horse and rider.  If an impact does occur with a solid object, the horse should take damage, possibly fall, and the rider risk being thrown off violently (both fall chance and damage to horse and rider depending on the speed of the impact, and being thrown off if the horse stays upright depending on skill).  If you screw up badly enough, you should suffer the consequences.

A fleeing horse should more-or-less maintain direction (with some small random variation) unless there's something in its way, in which case it should turn in advance slightly to avoid it.  Once clear of impending threats (people or non-horse animals), the horse should randomly either slow to a walk (until it leaves the field) or stop.

As pointed out, having the horse crash into trees and rocks is unrealistic and NOT fun.  Having the horse behave like a car (it does EXACTLY what you direct, until it can't and things go wrong) is unrealistic, and not much fun in my opinion.  Besides, that also makes the horse a bit too overpowered too easily, because you gain the benefits of a combat mount with ANY horse.  Granted, a highly skilled horseman on a large, powerful mount SHOULD be overpowered, but it should take a lot of work to reach that mark, not be something you gain just by paying the few hundred credits for some tame riding horse and devoting a single point of skill to riding.  That riding horse should be EXTREMELY reluctant to charge into a line of men, and a bit skittish even about running into one lone guy, without proper training of both horse and rider.

Basically, I want cavalry in Bannerlord to BECOME as powerful as in original M&B, not be that powerful from the start, yet be easy to learn for a new player.  That takes a dependence on character skills, and not so much dependence on player skill.

I'm on board. When do we start?
 
I like Warbands horse mechanics. The only thing I would like to see is some evasive maneuver (slowing+direction change) from horses not to get stucked on vertical stakes. If you run into a dense forest that slowing effect would sum up tree by tree and make your horse halt, but not in one frame to another.
 
CaptainLee 说:
In terms of horse control, to take the 'realistic' approach really there should be clear differences between trained and untrained war horses. [...]

Indeed. Especially since horse breeding is already possible, horse training should logically come next. It could be included as options that can be set with your foreman at the stables. Breeding proper warhorses should require a very high skill in riding, and possibly a perk as well.
 
John C 说:
CaptainLee 说:
In terms of horse control, to take the 'realistic' approach really there should be clear differences between trained and untrained war horses. [...]

Indeed. Especially since horse breeding is already possible, horse training should logically come next. It could be included as options that can be set with your foreman at the stables. Breeding proper warhorses should require a very high skill in riding, and possibly a perk as well.

Seems to me like something you'd set up as an industry in one of your towns or villages.  Breeding horses, no problem.  Breeding war horses and training them for war, that's a lot more time, effort, and expense; time to upgrade that basic horse farm into a horse trainer.
 
Honved 说:
There also needs to be some minimum threshold for horses balking.  You're riding in a group, the horse next to yours swerves over, and bumps yours side to side.  Your horse suddenly goes from full speed to a dead stop from a bump to the side, rather than both being slightly jostled by the impact.  Or, you start out in a group of mixed cavalry and foot troops, you hit the button to go forward, and your horse balks.  There's an infantryman IN the front end of your horse, and until he moves, you can't go forward unless you turn and go around, yet that footman is invisible to you.  Then there's the 6" tall rock that you can't see for the grass in front of it, but the horse can't move past or over it.

Worse, a faster horse in your group passes THROUGH you and your horse from behind, and then your horse balks the instant it gets in front of you.  Apparently, the back half of the player's horse doesn't exist in the game for collision purposes, but the NPC horses do.

Anything would be an improvement to current cavalry collision mechanics.  There have been so many times where I can't even move in Warband/mods because allied infantry surrounded me. So frustrating.
 
Warband horse mechanic is okay. Just, looking at the cavalry/horse archer sergeant videos, looks pretty bad when you lead your horse unit and someone from your unit goes before you and stops you in your track which stops the whole unit as a domino effect. For enemy horse unit, horse without rider or even horse rider from another unit, I could make sense of it if they stop you. But your own unit, big no. At least to make them attempt to evade your predicted course or change its course copying your own. Which is understandably hard to code, more so in the chaos of battle.

Can't put my finger on it but, looking at the siege 2016 crowds and crowds now, there seems to be a difference, looks to me like the foot infantry tries to give way when player wants to come through to the front.

To sum it up, cavalry, which is fast and maneuverable, can make quite a difference in battle. Just the riders from your own unit trying to stop you (and the whole unit) in your tracks are breaking it. Still, probably hard to code, so I can bear with it. Maybe checking the surroundings more often than in the presented videos does the trick. Honved +1
 
Honved 说:
John C 说:
CaptainLee 说:
In terms of horse control, to take the 'realistic' approach really there should be clear differences between trained and untrained war horses. [...]

Indeed. Especially since horse breeding is already possible, horse training should logically come next. It could be included as options that can be set with your foreman at the stables. Breeding proper warhorses should require a very high skill in riding, and possibly a perk as well.

Seems to me like something you'd set up as an industry in one of your towns or villages.  Breeding horses, no problem.  Breeding war horses and training them for war, that's a lot more time, effort, and expense; time to upgrade that basic horse farm into a horse trainer.

Yes, upgrading businesses is a good idea in general. They could all start with just one or a few craftsmen and develop into manufactories (or expand stables / pastures / fields etc.) with additional investments.
 
Arnulf Floyd 说:
I am fine with Warband horse mechanics but I am pleased anyway

Warband horse mechanics are the minimum that makes them even playable. A modern game should have some upgrades to those early game systems.
 
Whatever makes you happy 说:
The game is already punishing enough. I don't want to fall off my horse every time I crash into something. I can't even think of any contemporary games that do that.


Cavalry has been the most generous class in both multiplayer and single player in warband. It's nowhere near close to punishing. If you hit a wall, dismount while shielding up. 360 invisible shielding box, superior speed and damage, bump/stab, acceleration. I am not sure what you are talking about.
 
I am mostly happy about what i saw in last gameplay videos.

- Horse pushes both friendly and enemy units so we don't get that weird animation in warband and don't being stopped for no reason.

- Horse doesn't get effect from small objects on the ground, and keeps it's velocity without any problem, where horses stuck in warband even with smallest object in the path.

- When horse collides with big object (like a wall or tree) in bannerlord, it stuns with neat animation, also that animation isn't as long as warband's one and you can easily get back to your speed with 2 clicks.

- When horse dies, you are being thrown away on the path of horse, where you were just being dragged where horse died in Warband.
 
This circlejerk is disgusting to read.


@578
Cavalry has been the most generous class in both multiplayer and single player in warband. It's nowhere near close to punishing.

@wormydog
cavalry is definitely one of the most OP elements in the game. (Although you can't really argue that they are not OP,

If you honestly seriously think that Cavalry is overpowered,
I suggest you guys take a trip into this thread I have put up a long time ago, which argues about the power of Cavalry in Warband.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,371546.0.html



After rereading this thread multiple times, I think I have found out the problem.

Everyone here thinks that Horses bumping into things and stopping movement is annoying.

Yes, I agree. I think its annoying.

But then everyone thinks the solution to fixing this problem, is by adding in realistic horse AI system, one of the worst things to ever exist in video games.

So I have a different solution.

How about we add in mechanic where the horse is automatically "slide" along the object or wall if it touches.

This way, players can still keep full control of their horses, my main problem of horse AI, while allowing people here with bad A and D fingers to allow easier control of their horses.

Oh wait...



Its already in the game.

Look at the Cavalry charge at the end of the video. Focus on the trees on the left.

No need for stupidly realistic horse AI anymore. Lets go home.







 
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