Cattle

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TheMageLord

The Handyman Can
Knight at Arms
M&BWB
I haven't done any real research into how prices are determined, but this trigger calls a script to change the trade good production of cattle meat determined by the number of cattle in the village - I *think* the production of beef is used elsewhere to determine both beef and cattle prices, but I haven't checked.
 

InstantBlade

Sergeant
M&B
Cattle?

Steal them, kill them and sell them before they rotten.
Makes an easy and fast cash for the beggining of the game
 

Collie

Sergeant
It's disappointing the cattle growth rate etc wasn't changed for 1.003. It was so obvious there was a problem in .960 when after a few months it became near impossible to find any cattle.  I used Magelord's little code change to alter cattle's behaviour to follow my party, then went to villages that had a surplus in cows and bought a load, and bought all the cattle at a village that required the Train Peasants quest (that will instantly cause the village to lose all their cows when the attack occurs so you might as well buy them all then and give yourself the money to buy them via cash cheat). I then had a cattle train of about 80 cows following me around the map just for when a village required some cows. Only I ended up losing the cows when I got frustrated at not being able to find a lord for a quest and teleported around the map to find him. Eventually I lost the cows. Still someone must be enjoying a mountain load of beef.
 

TheMageLord

The Handyman Can
Knight at Arms
M&BWB
The reason cattle disappear is theres a trigger that erases them every day if you're not close enough when it checks.
 

Elmetiacos

Knight
It looks to me as if the cattle economics are broken. The 3% chance of total loss needs to be changed because it makes decline a mathematical inevitability: a village can grow its herd at a small rate but can never be rid of the chance that an infinite number of cows will suddenly vanish.
 

applepiepod

Regular
1% sounds better.

Now, how do you make it so cattle follows the player? I really like that idea. Cattle herding games and mini games (I've seen and played a lot) are really lame. As long as you rope and lead the head honcho, all the cows follow.

I've seen a slaughtered cow dragged across a field by a tractor, and a few of the remaining cows were following it. Poor little buggers, they looked worried.
^ I was on a bus full of children, lol. Up in front, by the gate, some guys were hacking some other dead one's limbs off. Cow insides look roomy with all the guts gone. I wonder why some ancient armies didn't wear the ribs + leather of dead animals. That'd look epic.
 
I've just realized, am I interpreting the math correctly in that the prosperity of a village has no bearing on the chances of cattle growth/decline? If so, that's just stupid and needs to be changed. Bringing cattle to a village needs to boost prosperity, and high prosperity should make losses less likely.
 

Collie

Sergeant
Surely, however, one of the biggest causes of villages running out of cattle is the constant bandit invasions and looting wiping them all out also? Seems to me there are far too many factors that cause a decline in cow numbers, rather than a boost.
 

TheMageLord

The Handyman Can
Knight at Arms
M&BWB
Yeah, lots of things make cattle decline - the ones in the trigger are ones that happen for no actual reason, just *poof* no more cows. Even without cattle decline bandits and looting lords cuts down the cattle numbers enough.

I edited mine so that it only has a 10% chance of decline and 0% chance of losing the herd. It would probably be better if it cut the herd in half on the 3% instead of down to 0. This way it just grows slowly over time with a decline every so often, only dropping back to 0 with a really bad string of luck (bunch of 10% chances) or a raid.

Prosperity doesn't affect cattle at all, but I'm not sure if cattle affects prosperity in any way - it does add to cattle meat production, which may tie in to something somewhere that affects it.

You have to edit the menu to make cattle follow a player. Check this: link.
That's a post I made with all 5 of the different little tweaks I've posted, including this one and the cattle following one.
 
applepiepod said:
1% sounds better.

Now, how do you make it so cattle follows the player? I really like that idea. Cattle herding games and mini games (I've seen and played a lot) are really lame. As long as you rope and lead the head honcho, all the cows follow.

I've seen a slaughtered cow dragged across a field by a tractor, and a few of the remaining cows were following it. Poor little buggers, they looked worried.
^ I was on a bus full of children, lol. Up in front, by the gate, some guys were hacking some other dead one's limbs off. Cow insides look roomy with all the guts gone. I wonder why some ancient armies didn't wear the ribs + leather of dead animals. That'd look epic.


Best laugh of the night man +10 points to you xD
 

ZiP*

Recruit
theguruofreason said:
So... I really don't know why no one has discussed this. Maybe no one but me does quests for the villages.

In the beginning of the game, and probably all the way to level 6 or so, you can go to a small village and ride up to the "village elder" and when you ask to buy cattle from them they typically tell you, "Hey there sonny-jim! I gots me 126 heads of cattle. You can buy 'em fer 22 denars a piece if ya like." However, by level 15 you ride up to the same elder and you'll hear one of two responses to the same query; "WHAT!? Who are you? What do you want? Not here to raid us are you?! Oh, you want to buy cattle. We have none left. 15 Marauding lords have been through here in the last month and we're all out!" or "WHAT!? Who are you? What do you want? Not here to raid us are you?! Oh, you want to buy cattle. We have 3 heads left and you can buy them for 2200 denars a piece."

Holy Funkin' Waggles! When other villages are asking you for 8 heads to replenish their corals you first must spend days trodding around the countryside until you find a village that actually HAS cattle, and then must pay exorbitant prices for, frankly, not enough cattle. Even at level 25 it's not worth it to me to spend 10 days and 18000 denars to get +8 reputation with a village. Is this a broken game mechanic? Am I the only one having this problem? The other quests for villages are very reasonable; "Go buy us 8 sacks of wheat at 100 denars a piece from the nearest town/villiage. They always have them in stock." "Spend 2 days training us and then fight with us against 25+ local bandits." Not too easy, not too hard. Why the hell do the cattle quests become so outlandishly resource consuming? Not only that, but they increase in frequency if I'm not mistaken, likely because no villages have cows left.

One final thing, IMO the rate at which lords raid villages is too high. It is likely a reflection of "reality" but it's just an annoying mechanic which causes all the world's villages to constantly be in a state of gut-wrenching poverty. The game could do with some party-level AI enhancements.

Welcome to Capitalism  :roll:
 

Darmoth

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&S
TheMageLord said:
The red 0 and 100 are the parameters for the random number generated (between 0 and 100), and it then takes 0-2 for 0 cows, 3-9 for big growth, 10-49 for negative 3-8. 50+ is the low growth one. You could change that to 45 100 to make it give a roughly 9% chance of 3-8 negative growth and 91% chance of small positive growth - that'd probably balance it out good enough to work, but it would remove the chance of big growth and big loss entirely.

I'm a little confused about this part... The red number. Is it like, rolling a die?
 
InstantBlade said:
Cattle?

Steal them, kill them and sell them before they rotten.
Makes an easy and fast cash for the beggining of the game

Or steal, and loot, and get two sets of cattle.  :lol: That's probably a bit more than a town can pay you if they're worth a lot though, but in the beginning it should be easier to sell them off.
 

TheMageLord

The Handyman Can
Knight at Arms
M&BWB
Darmoth said:
I'm a little confused about this part... The red number. Is it like, rolling a die?

It's a random number generated between 0 and 100. You can change the 0 or the 100 to make the range smaller. Kind of like rolling a really big die. I never really experimented to see how the random generator works in M&B, but it should be either a number between 0 and 100 (so 101 different possibilities) or it might be set to reduce the top number by 1 (other games RNG's do this) so it would be 0-99, or 100 different possibilities.

That number is compared to the other numbers. If it's less than 3 (so 0, 1, or 2) it eats all the cattle, less than 10 is growth (but it can't trigger if the one before was triggered, so it's actually 3,4,5,6,7,8,9). Then if it's less than 50 (10-49) it's a loss. Anything 50 or over would be outside those ranges and fall into the next category - small growth. All the numbers can be modified, but they need to be in order from lesser to greater - if you have the first one set at 80 and the second one set at 50, the second one would never trigger.
 

Darmoth

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&S
So if I were to change the red numbers to 3-9 then it would do nothing but grow more and more cattle... The 0 - 2 range, by 0 cows, you mean all cows have gone bye-bye... or does that simply represent no growth?

I'm just tired of the cross country epics to find a town with cattle, and I'd preffer that my fief wouldn't suddenly have all cattle gone. Sometimes it feels like "what the hell did you do with the herd I just got you?!" While I can still understand them being gone after they're occupied by bandits or have been raided... It just costs so damn much to replace their herd.
 

TheMageLord

The Handyman Can
Knight at Arms
M&BWB
0-2 means all cows are exterminated.

3-9 would work, they'd just grow and grow and grow. Every village should quickly get up to 101 and stay there until raided or what have you, but then they would quickly grow back.

You could also leave it at 0-100 and edit the chances of things happening. Change the 3 to a 0 (no chance of complete kill) and the 10 to a 40 (40% chance of big growth) and you'd then have 40% big growth, 50% normal growth, and only 10% of losing 3-8. That should be a decent setup to grow cows. If that's not enough, raise the 10 to a 45 - then it's only a 5% chance of losing. Or just leave the 10 as a 10 and change the 50 to a 15, so it would be 10% big growth 85% normal growth and 5% loss. Lots of ways to change it.

That way instead of permanent growth, you actually get a few losses here or there. But it mostly grows.
 

Darmoth

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&S
TheMageLord said:
0-2 means all cows are exterminated.

3-9 would work, they'd just grow and grow and grow. Every village should quickly get up to 101 and stay there until raided or what have you, but then they would quickly grow back.

You could also leave it at 0-100 and edit the chances of things happening. Change the 3 to a 0 (no chance of complete kill) and the 10 to a 40 (40% chance of big growth) and you'd then have 40% big growth, 50% normal growth, and only 10% of losing 3-8. That should be a decent setup to grow cows. If that's not enough, raise the 10 to a 45 - then it's only a 5% chance of losing. Or just leave the 10 as a 10 and change the 50 to a 15, so it would be 10% big growth 85% normal growth and 5% loss. Lots of ways to change it.

That way instead of permanent growth, you actually get a few losses here or there. But it mostly grows.

Okay... maybe I'm bit daft here... I can see where to change the 3 to 0, the green. What 10? I see a lone 10 in that set of numbers but it's not highlighted in any color.

Also the what then is the difference between the blue and yellow? Why have a straight number to add, when there is also a percentage increase?

Sorry, I really am trying. :oops:
 

TheMageLord

The Handyman Can
Knight at Arms
M&BWB
Oh, whoops, I'm sorry. I was thinking I highlighted the 10 and 50. I just did them now in green.
Thats the right 10 and 50, though - only ones there.

The yellow numbers are to make the herd grow by a percentage, I guess because Armagan wanted it to grow based on size and not just a set amount. The set amount is there because if it only grew based on percentage, it would never go above 0 after dropping to 0.
 
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