Caribbean! Map Return to 3D Poll

[wildyracing]

Hello guys,
As you may understand from the poll, I'd like to know your opinion on the newly introduced 2D picture map of Caribbean!
Personally, I love the old 3D map with all its features and regret the Snowbird's decision to degrade it to 2D. Although beautiful in looks, the new map is very dull IMO - no paths, no rivers, no mountains - just a flat terrain without obstacles....
I would be very happy if Snowbird revert back to their original 3D Caribbean! map. Maybe together we will be able to make it happen, as Snowbird has proven to listen to its customers desires. What do you think?
Thank you!

 

[lucky lancer]

Although I like the looks of the 2D map, I too find it 'dull' in terms of feature lacking. I share wildyracing's opinion. Best case in my eyes would be to reintroduce the 3D map while trying to keep some of the new 2D map's improved looks. This would make the game 'feel' quite a bit better, I think.

 

[wildyracing]

Although I like the looks of the 2D map, I too find it 'dull' in terms of feature lacking. I share wildyracing's opinion. Best case in my eyes would be to reintroduce the 3D map while trying to keep some of the new 2D map's improved looks. This would make the game 'feel' quite a bit better, I think.

I think exactly the same mate! Thanks!

 

[SomeHairyGuy]

This was one of the first things I saw when I tried playing the game and it gave me a pretty f****** awful first impression. No doubt that'll be the same for many other players too, so let there be change! Give us our 3D!

 

[keags6]

Yeah totally agree with this post, Also it would be nice to be able to walk around the towns and docks like in the old Mount and Blade. Even if there isnt much to do, Mount and blade after all is a role playing game, and I feel a lot of those elements have been removed for the sake of being different, when there is nothing wrong taking inspiration from mount and blade as its pretty much an awesome game!

 

[wildyracing]

Yeah totally agree with this post, Also it would be nice to be able to walk around the towns and docks like in the old Mount and Blade. Even if there isnt much to do, Mount and blade after all is a role playing game, and I feel a lot of those elements have been removed for the sake of being different, when there is nothing wrong taking inspiration from mount and blade as its pretty much an awesome game!

Could not agree more with you! Thanks!

By the way, the poll surely shows public's opinion. Around 80% percent of Caribbean! gamers would want their 3D map back... anything to say us Snowbird?

 

[RancorSnp]

As much as I want to remind everyone that Caribbean is not technically M&B game, and has no need to reslemble it by the map. I still have no idea why they scrtched that for plain 2D map :

 

[wildyracing]

I haven't got a clue either... Common sense doesn't help here

 

[warprincenataku]

The 3D map is just too busy, I prefer the simplified one.

 

[Airith]

I think a choice would be nice, default to the new one.

 

[wildyracing]

I think a choice would be nice, default to the new one.

A choice is always better But I honestly doubt it is possible gameplay-wise:

A 3D map means there will be:
1. Mountains which could not be crossed.
2. Narrow paths where garrisons may be strategically deployed in forts which the player should defeat, make allies or pay a tax in order to pass beyond.
3. Rivers which could be crossed only on certain places (the above path statement also valid here) or make a temporary pontoon bridge with proper tools, timber and a lot of engineering skill.
4. Almost entire land mass should be covered with wild and hostile jungle which hugely affects the party movement speed. Paths throught the jungle should exist only around the coast, going deep into it should result in a possible dangerous events like as animal or native tribes attack against the human player and his companions/bodyguards (just like bandit attacks in Native Warband).
5. Many more great and realistic features which are common sense for the old 3D map and missing from current 2D picture map.

If you consider what I said above, you would know that they can't make them work together and give us a choice to choose. Those features above will make Caribbean! an entirely new game... a LOT BETTER one IMHO

 

[La Grandmaster]

Although I agree with you that it would be pretty impossible for them to have both a 2d and 3d map, your points are complete rubbish.

Caribbean began with a 3d map which did not feature many of elements you suggest, in fact (and i may be wrong about this), i dont even think the coding for the two maps would be hugely different, ai pathfinding, party placement, and many other features could theoretically use very similar code. The main reason I dont think they would include two is because it would be fairly expensive to store two different types of map and then load one upon a new game start, and also the fact that I dont think it would make sense from a design point of view - they have chosen to go in this new direction away from the old m&B style map (and sent a lot of time developing it), why would they give players the choice to not even use it.

They could however go with an inbetween version -
I created this a few months ago. Its got aspects of a 2d map (in that it uses a one massive map texture, you can paint on islands ect), but its also got aspects of a 3d map (it has mountains, hills, shadows, can be rotated).

This texture

Spoiler

produces this map in game

Spoiler

The caribbean team are much more talented than me, (and have less restrictions engine wise than me). so obviously they could produce something much better. I just threw this together to show that you could have an inbetween of the two.

 

[wildyracing]

My points are not rubbish at all! If you consider that way, it is your problem to be a short-minded person.

Most of my suggested features are readily available in Warband either Native or with mods, but they have one similar feature - they require a 3D map to exist.

Sorry, but 2D map is not an option for me and nearly 80% of Caribbean!'s players. It is just a plain picture (although beautiful) of dumbed down terrain, ridiculous big party icons, not enough zoom-in, very fast travel etc. etc. No one can ever persuade me that 2D map is better than 3D, especially in a case including M&B game (or at least its engine, because Caribbean! is just that).

With all due respect, I'm sure Snowbird has more knowledge how to program their game than you, but it really isn't about the programming skill. I think this "sorry, but no returning to the all-round better 3D map" is some kind of stubbornness and a desire to reject public opinion just to enforce an argument.

 

[La Grandmaster]

I did not say the features you suggested are rubbish - i meant that your reasons for why they cant have two maps are rubbish/false. All 4 of the features you suggested could easily be present on a 2d map.

My points are not rubbish at all! If you consider that way, it is your problem to be a short-minded person.

Most of my suggested features are readily available in Warband either Native or with mods, but they have one similar feature - they require a 3D map to exist.

Why do your features require a 3d map? Not one of them wouldn't work on a 2d map. They may not be present on the current 2d map but there is no reason why they wouldn't work.

Sorry, but 2D map is not an option for me and nearly 80% of Caribbean!'s players. It is just a plain picture (although beautiful) of dumbed down terrain, ridiculous big party icons, not enough zoom-in, very fast travel etc. etc. No one can ever persuade me that 2D map is better than 3D, especially in a case including M&B game (or at least its engine, because Caribbean! is just that).

You misunderstand me, I agree, I am not trying to say a 2d map is better, I dont like it one bit. The pictures I posted are of a 3d map, and as such I am not trying to argue that a 2d map is better. I am in support of a 3d map.

I think this "sorry, but no returning to the all-round better 3D map" is some kind of stubbornness and a desire to reject public opinion just to enforce an argument.

Where have snowbird said that they will absolutely not return to the 3d map. I haven't heard them say this once. Also, as the opening post stated, snowbird (like most small games companies) do listen to customer opinions, so your claim that they refuse to return to the old map out of stubbornness and that they have a desire to reject public opinion makes no sense.

I do agree that it is unlikely that they will return to the old 3d map, but I think that it is unlikely due to the fact that they have clearly spent time and effort on the new 2d map and I don think they would want it to go to waste so quickly.

With all due respect, I'm sure Snowbird has more knowledge how to program their game than you, but it really isn't about the programming skill.

I never once said or suggested they didn't. Its there game for christ sakes. Also I never once said it was about programming skill.

 

[produno]

@wildyracing

Of all the points you mentioned, i see no reason why either couldnt be implemented on a 3D or 2D map. I also dont really see, processing wise, why a 2d map with the same features would be any less intensive.

La Grandmaster speaks sense... You should listen to him


Of course i may have miss-read what you said... its very late here and im very tired .

 

[wildyracing]

@La Grandmaster, @produno

We misread each others' opinion all the time, but at least we understand in the end, which is going on for us which is fine

I've nothing against a 2D map concept in general - I miss out those featured which were once promised, then scraped away. Without them, the campaing map seems flat and dull (although beautiful) and it is a pale shadow of what any M&B game (native or mod) campaing map has to offer. I'm sure you all would agree with me on this.

Maybe it is my bad I don't completely understand how the mapping thing work and this had me consider only 3D map would be suited for the job. If what you suggested is true and Snowbird could implement missing features onto their current 2D map, I'll be more than happy with that solution.

 

[produno]

I bought the game but havnt tried it since they announced no scenes and a 2d map. Another game no doubt just sat in my library :p.

So yeah i agree, bring back the 3D map.

 

[wildyracing]

I bought the game but havnt tried it since they announced no scenes and a 2d map. Another game no doubt just sat in my library :p.

So yeah i agree, bring back the 3D map.

Mate, the game is actually fun to play. Snowbird has done wonderful things never seen in M&B relevant game. You definitely should try it now.

But unfortunately, they also did some bad thing as mentioned above. If they bring back what is missing, Caribbean! has the potential to be the best M&B ever (someone please not tell me it is not a M&B game, because technically speaking it is just that!).

 

[gozer0]

I'm gonna back the devs on this one.  The current map reflects the fact that there is less "unfun" crap to deal with than other M&B mods.

  Viking Conquest featured a very cool 3d map but it hogged resources.  More bells and whistles doesnt guarantee better gameplay.

  Best thing about this game is the combat, so kudos to the devs for taking the best combat engine in electronic entertainment and incorporating that into thier own vision.

 

[Ettenrocal]

I didn't like the ancient 3d map too the zoom was reduce and blocked at a high level if we compare with native/like gameplay and it was pretty empty, what i like in the new 2d map is that the world is bigger, but the the map icons are looking ridiculous on it and there is only big cities and ports what is not much fun in a game about pirates adventures explorating and discovering. I think that map should have been more detailed than in native, cause it is on islands: less land territories so we expect to discover few places on each islands. What could be very nice is a 2D map (in pirate map old style) covering up the 3D detailed map like a fog of war

Anyway the game as been really improved since the start, like other said here the combats are really cool giving you a more intense feeling, but the tactical controls are pretty weird. Naval boarding is cool too, naval battles less. And why we always got the flag of Portugal as a banner ?