Caravans need serious help in 1.6.3 (Dear Devs)

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Flesson19

Not a Cookie
Knight
After my extensive testing in 1.6.3 their profit has been the worse I have ever seen since I started making these videos each patch for caravans. Here is the scenario, caravans are averaging around 270 profit /day. That is 45,360 for 2 years which is what a dev told me the average caravan should survive. Now if you subtract the 22,500 starting cost for upgraded troops then your left with 22,860. Divide by 168 for the 2 years and you get 136 profit /day with a 70% survivability rate per year. I have mentioned this before to TW since caravan profits were destroyed in 1.5.9.
Can a dev please explain to me where a workshop making 200-250 a day is low risk / low reward and a caravan making 136 a day is high risk / high "REWARD" Unless you spend many months or years building up so many skills then they are unable to make over 300 a day. Not since around 1.5.8 have caravans been able to make 500 a day which if you do the math that is considered high risk / high reward.
I would love to have the dev responsible message me as I have had a couple great ideas to make caravans viable again because why have caravans as an option in the game if they are a total waste to do.
Can we please fix what is broken
1) Profits are terrible unless they have over 200 trade
2) Survivability is awful (1 out of 45 test runs could I get 5 caravans to survive 1 year)
3) caravans stuck at towns while they are sieging delaying them sometimes a week or more
those are the 3 main issues and once again, if your unwilling to do anything about it, why even have it an option in the game since I have been asking for help in these areas since 1.5.9
 
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Lazregamesh

Sergeant
WB
After my extensive testing in 1.6.3 their profit has been the worse I have ever seen since I started making these videos each patch for caravans. Here is the scenario, caravans are averaging around 270 profit /day. That is 45,360 for 2 years which is what a dev told me the average caravan should survive. Now if you subtract the 22,500 starting cost for upgraded troops then your left with 22,860. Divide by 168 for the 2 years and you get 136 profit /day with a 70% survivability rate per year. I have mentioned this before to TW since caravan profits were destroyed in 1.5.9.
Can a dev please explain to me where a workshop making 200-250 a day is low risk / low reward and a caravan making 136 a day is high risk / high "REWARD" Unless you spend many months or years building up so many skills then they are unable to make over 300 a day. Not since around 1.5.8 have caravans been able to make 500 a day which if you do the math that is considered high risk / high reward.
I would love to have the dev responsible message me as I have had a couple great ideas to make caravans viable again because why have caravans as an option in the game if they are a total waste to do.
Can we please fix what is broken
1) Profits are terrible unless they have over 200 trade
2) Survivability is awful (1 out of 45 test runs could I get 5 caravans to survive 1 year)
3) caravans stuck at towns while they are sieging delaying them sometimes a week or more
those are the 3 main issues and once again, if your unwilling to do anything about it, why even have it an option in the game since I have been asking for help in these areas since 1.5.9
Yes, the state of Caravans is a tragic one. I think i read in known issues that the caravan leaders are not gaining stewardship skill when they should.
The train of Caravans waiting for me to finish a siege is also an ugly sight and probably very damaging to everyone involved. They should just move on after a day or 2.
500/day seems very reasonable since you might on top of loosing your investment, get your companions killed or you might have to pay a ransom on top of all the losses too.
I hope you get their attention. It is one of the things that need to be looked at.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
  • Caravanleaders should get lots of Trade XP(Less Stewardship and Leadership)
  • Clanleader should also get some trade XP
  • Trade-skill should base the partysize of a caravan.
  • Dynamic starting setup. Lets have Base size of caravans set to 15 or something.
    • Trade-skill defines quantity max(slider 15 to Max)
    • Investment defines quality. (slider "Only T2" to "Good quality", which is somewhere in line med current 22500 composition)
  • Caravan party troops get XP with in relation to how successfull trade they do(Amount of XP is relative to the unmodified trade XP driver gets, I assume)
  • These sliders are accessable from clan -> parties interface to be changed at any time(They take affect next time they visit a town)
 
I think the initial setup cost is one of the major problems, IF the player had to setup their own caravan - how much would that cost ?

(1) 5 Sumpter horses - $ 500 max
(2) 30 Soldiers to protect the caravan - $500 to $1,000 ??
(3) Initial products to trade - $1,000 to $2,000 ???

No where near $15,000 or $22,500.

Yes, we all know why they are so expensive - to stop early players from setting up caravans !! UG!

.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
(2) 30 Soldiers to protect the caravan - $500 to $1,000 ??
We all know caravan soldiers are x100 more expensive than regulars. Look at their costs when available in Tavern. 3 Armed traders can cost 1600. Whith that price logic 22500 is nothing unreasonable! :smile:
 
We all know caravan soldiers are x100 more expensive than regulars. Look at their costs when available in Tavern. 3 Armed traders can cost 1600. Whith that price logic 22500 is nothing unreasonable! :smile:

Costs of troops in taverns are an old joke, that isn't funny anymore.

Joke - A small group of mercenary soldiers went into a tavern to sell their services ... 10 years later .. the dust lays thick, the crickets sing in the background .. customers went elsewhere long ago ... :grin:

HOPEFULLY players will be able to create their own caravans soon... AND control battles caravans are in.

.
.
 
2 years which is what a dev told me the average caravan should survive
I don't know how they came to this conclusion, because its such a load of bollocks and is the complete opposite of the actual in-game player experience. I normally try and have 4 caravans, and if all 4 survive a month it's a god damn MIRACLE. They're CONSTANTLY being captured, especially if you're at war with multiple factions - and if your faction is big that's basically all the time. As Vlandia, we haven't seen a single day of peace in about 20 years.

The caravans are a total waste of money right now. Startup cost is too high, income from them is too low, Survivability is non-existent.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I think the initial setup cost is one of the major problems, IF the player had to setup their own caravan - how much would that cost ?

(1) 5 Sumpter horses - $ 500 max
(2) 30 Soldiers to protect the caravan - $500 to $1,000 ??
(3) Initial products to trade - $1,000 to $2,000 ???

No where near $15,000 or $22,500.

Yes, we all know why they are so expensive - to stop early players from setting up caravans !! UG!

.
That's a fantastic point.
 

Madeloc

Recruit
Already why do the player's caravans do not have as many troops as AI's ones (50) ?

ATM looking for a mod doing this but all existing mods seem to be outdated...
 

Adrivan

Sergeant at Arms
Also, unless you ban yourself from using smithing, there is no point in any other money making method. I can just craft some weapons and get 100k in a minute.
 

Flesson19

Not a Cookie
Knight
right now they are averaging maybe 250 a day, even if you double it to 500 a day with startup cost and the risk of them getting captured in 2 years that is really so so profit for the risk ,but TW sees 500 and think that is too much. After all other factors 500 a day profit is just ok, caravans are in a terrible state right now, as I said why a feature in the game if virtually no one will use since its not a viable option. I see caravans having 1 purpose and that is to get the caravan master perks as a governor and that is sad
 

manduran

Recruit
right now they are averaging maybe 250 a day, even if you double it to 500 a day with startup cost and the risk of them getting captured in 2 years that is really so so profit for the risk ,but TW sees 500 and think that is too much. After all other factors 500 a day profit is just ok, caravans are in a terrible state right now, as I said why a feature in the game if virtually no one will use since its not a viable option. I see caravans having 1 purpose and that is to get the caravan master perks as a governor and that is sad
I guess, as far as understood, they should give trading xp to both the caravan leading companion and the operator, who is the player.
That given, I would argue, it's ok to have them kinda expensive as you train you character as well as companions by operating caravans.
Right now, as the trade xp are not granted, from what I can tell, I would strengthen they are
far away from being balanced. STILL they already train companions in steward, scouting, leadership, tactics. Add trade xp for the player... I'd be fine with the costs, as I feel it would be kinda in balance.
Just my personal thoughts :smile:
 

EverKira

Recruit
I guess, as far as understood, they should give trading xp to both the caravan leading companion and the operator, who is the player.
That given, I would argue, it's ok to have them kinda expensive as you train you character as well as companions by operating caravans.
Right now, as the trade xp are not granted, from what I can tell, I would strengthen they are
far away from being balanced. STILL they already train companions in steward, scouting, leadership, tactics. Add trade xp for the player... I'd be fine with the costs, as I feel it would be kinda in balance.
Just my personal thoughts :smile:
They don't do steward. In over 500 hours of gameplay I have never seen a companion gain Steward XP from a caravan.
 

manduran

Recruit
They don't do steward. In over 500 hours of gameplay I have never seen a companion gain Steward XP from a caravan.
Possible. I was not actually investigating qa like. I just saw random gainings of my caravan leader coming up in the log. I thought I saw steward as well in my 1.6.3 game, but this needed to be validated.I guess it's meant to be though.
Again, I agree there is things to be done, definitely, I just feel, if they grant all of it, I personally find the costs ok. Balance wise.
 
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