Caravans are too weak

moscaflaca

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I pay a lot of money for a single caravan and they get killed by bandits constantly. The party members keep deserting. I need caravans to sustain my army. I can't afford my troops without caravans. Please restore caravans or simply lower the profit you earn from them, but please don't make them so vulnerable. an individual caravan rarely made a profit over 1k anyway. they were a slow but worthwhile investment.
 
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Menaclys

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I absolutely agree,

I just created this account so I could speak my opinion because I really do love this game. Currently sitting at 80+ hours Caravans have been a very balanced aspect of the economy thus far. I log in after this update and within 3 days ingame all my caravans are destroyed. This absolutely ruins the point of the investment and any hope of residual income. Please take this feature out or make it extremely rare a caravan is attacked

I really hope this feature goes away so I can go back to playing this game.
 

Figulus

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Aye , devs clearly on passive income assault. Workshop dough down too. I'm looking at decimating garrisons , taking in caravan commanders as cavalry and laying off about half my army..wtf!!??
 

BattanianDruid

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This seems to be a good proof of concept of what I was saying in the "nerf caravans" thread.

If you make caravans too vulnerable they become a nonviable way of earning money and thus become a dead mechanic nobody uses.
 

moscaflaca

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i'm just confused by who wanted caravan income nerfed to begin with? yeah its kind of rediculous if you have like 5-10 caravans, but at that point you have 0 companions to use in your army due to companion limit. if there is going to be a companion limit and companions have to run caravans, the income from caravans NEEDS to be good! because youre limited to only a few caravans anyway. alternatively, if you're allowed to have as many companions (and as many caravans as you want) i can understand the income being reduced, but i still don't think they need to be as vulnerable as they are now.
 

SAbre4809

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Caravans used to be the easy mode button even if you did it in a brain dead way. Now you have to actually do some thinking, make good decisions and engage in gameplay mechanics to get good returns out of them, if you want old caravans back just enable cheats and give yourself infinite money, it's the same game for you than what it was before then.
 

NWCtim

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It seems like they want passive income to not be able to cover all your operating costs, and that income from battles is supposed to be your primary source of income.
 

DocShotgun

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Caravans used to be the easy mode button even if you did it in a brain dead way. Now you have to actually do some thinking, make good decisions and engage in gameplay mechanics to get good returns out of them, if you want old caravans back just enable cheats and give yourself infinite money, it's the same game for you than what it was before then.
How exactly do you intend to "make good decisions and engage in gameplay mechanics" to make the new caravans worthwhile? It's not like you can give them instructions to have them play safer. And if you have to constantly follow them around and defend them yourself, aren't they just not worth the effort at that point? They already cost a companion per caravan away from your party.
 

BattanianDruid

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Caravans used to be the easy mode button even if you did it in a brain dead way. Now you have to actually do some thinking, make good decisions and engage in gameplay mechanics to get good returns out of them, if you want old caravans back just enable cheats and give yourself infinite money, it's the same game for you than what it was before then.
What thinking do you have to do now, exactly? What strategic depth did this add?

At best it turned caravans into an escort quest that never ends. At worst it became a feature I'll never touch again because it simply isn't profitable compared to other options.

Also caravans were never infinite money. They were enough to turn a decent daily profit that allowed you to field a big enough army to be relevant in the bigger battles. A good bridge from stomping looters all day to being able to advance to taking on caravans and lords. In other words they existed to allow us to engage with the actually fun aspects of the game before we were in a position to own and defend a fief.

Now that bridge is gone. Guess I'll go back to farming looters and tournaments.
 

Watercrown123

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What thinking do you have to do now, exactly? What strategic depth did this add?

At best it turned caravans into an escort quest that never ends. At worst it became a feature I'll never touch again because it simply isn't profitable compared to other options.

Also caravans were never infinite money. They were enough to turn a decent daily profit that allowed you to field a big enough army to be relevant in the bigger battles. A good bridge from stomping looters all day to being able to advance to taking on caravans and lords. In other words they existed to allow us to engage with the actually fun aspects of the game before we were in a position to own and defend a fief.

Now that bridge is gone. Guess I'll go back to farming looters and tournaments.
Exactly this, they were a perfect way to enable you to bridge that gap between being limited to fighting bandits and being able to take on lords and propelling yourself into the mid-game.
 

Schoulayer

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I am thoroughly fed up with these nerfs to passive income. At the bare minimum, I want my passive income to be able to cover my garrisons and armies. I don't want to feel like I need to continuously battle to maintain what I already have. The income I get from battles should be what I use to buy more stuff like personal equipment, not just maintain what I already have!

I have started cheating to give my dedicated caravan companions 300 tactics and 300 scouting. Scouting helps them outrun pursers, and tactics helps them win the battle even if the odds are against them. It's still not the same as before, but at least my caravans aren't dying every few days anymore.
 

Shnordo

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Aye , devs clearly on passive income assault. Workshop dough down too. I'm looking at decimating garrisons , taking in caravan commanders as cavalry and laying off about half my army..wtf!!??
From what I understand, when TW does a patch like this, it isn't to nerf the player, it's to nerf the rest of the whole gosh dang map and all the other lords. This patch also effects enemy caravans so maybe look at it from a different perspective.
 

Watercrown123

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From what I understand, when TW does a patch like this, it isn't to nerf the player, it's to nerf the rest of the whole gosh dang map and all the other lords. This patch also effects enemy caravans so maybe look at it from a different perspective.
Actual nobles don't use caravans though from what I understand. The only way they impacted lords was from making towns that they own more prosperous.
 

NWCtim

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Actual nobles don't use caravans though from what I understand. The only way they impacted lords was from making towns that they own more prosperous.
If you attack a caravan, it does negatively impact your relation with a lord, who I assume is the owner of that caravan.
 

Aruda

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i'm just confused by who wanted caravan income nerfed to begin with? yeah its kind of rediculous if you have like 5-10 caravans, but at that point you have 0 companions to use in your army due to companion limit. if there is going to be a companion limit and companions have to run caravans, the income from caravans NEEDS to be good! because youre limited to only a few caravans anyway. alternatively, if you're allowed to have as many companions (and as many caravans as you want) i can understand the income being reduced, but i still don't think they need to be as vulnerable as they are now.
My guess is its a temporary income nerf for the player. People complained about gaining too much money and having nothing to spend on so they tried to nerf the early/mid game income for now. I'm pretty sure they will do something about it later.
 

Watercrown123

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If you attack a caravan, it does negatively impact your relation with a lord, who I assume is the owner of that caravan.
That's normally a notable in a city, not an actual lord who has a party and is part of a clan. In fact, those notables don't even have "money" like the player or proper lords so unless I'm terribly misjudging the background mechanics, it doesn't even matter for them whether or not their caravans live for 1 day or 10 years.
 

Shnordo

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Actual nobles don't use caravans though from what I understand. The only way they impacted lords was from making towns that they own more prosperous.
Okay, I was mistaken about the lords, doesnt make my point any less true about all caravans being nerfed, not just yours.
 

Sithrain

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Caravans were the only thing moving goods around the map other than the player though, so I'm guessing this has wrecked a lot of the economy like food getting to places that didn't produce it, or horses becoming available where there's no village for them.