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Captain Mode: Cavalry

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the_hajji

Sergeant
I have been playing captain mode since the beginning of the beta. I really enjoy it, and I can say that it's easily my favorite game mode. However throughout my in-game hours the inconsistency of cavalry really bothered me.Cavalry went from incredibly powerful, to incredibly weak, to now incredibly powerful again. I don't know the details of the AI changes TW has been making as I know very little about game development. However I have to say that I'm a little bummed that the obvious solution of two handed pikes being brace able doesn't seem to have even been considered.

The way the infantry AI works in conjunction with the speed and timing of spear thrusts makes it pretty much impossible for AI units to kill cavalry AI effectively. Even if they do get lucky and actually rear one out 7 cav units, they are so ineffective at killing them that the cav almost always gets away unless the player intervenes personally.What inevitably happens as a consequence of this is that players realize this and begin to spam cav, which gets them an easy win, especially if their factions cav is particularly good, such as cataphracts and knights. The opposing team, (unless their Battania), responds with cav spam of their own, and the latter half of the game becomes a boring and very lame mosh-pit of cav ramming into each other all over the map while the player tries to kill as many as they can.

I personally feel the solution is obvious. I brought it up during the beta, though i was definitely not the first, nor last, nor most vocal of those who pointed it out. Making the pikes given to shock troops, and one of the menavlions given to the menavlion infantry, brace-able, would make it so that there is an actual counter to heavy cavalry that doesn't require slogging through a very uninspired cav battle. Whats the point of having units other than cav if that's what it's going to come to?

Faction-wise this would function as such.

Aserai: Guard's pike brace-able
Battania: Savage's pike brace-able
Empire: Menavlion Infantry's Long menavlion brace-able
Vlandia: Voulgier's pike brace-able

For the Khuzait and the Sturgians, this would require some equipment changes, best of which imo would be

Sturgians: Warrior is given the equipment choice of a two handed brace-able pike, replaces the redundant two handed axe.
Khuzait: Rabble is given the equipment choice of a two handed brace-able pike, replaces the redundant sling

A brace-able pike would essentially work similar to the couched lance, in that the horse who comes into contact with it, proportional to its speed, instantly dies. I have no idea if this is technically possible within the boundaries of the game's engine. Like I said I am not a game developer and have no experience with game developing. However I'm sure this could be done to a certain extent. If I am mistaken please correct me but I don't see why an engine which can simulate a couched lance shouldn't be able to simulate a braced pike.

As for any who feel this would be too overpowered and make cavalry useless, I would argue that making the pikes two handed is a crucial part of why that's not correct. A two handed pike leaves the unit incredibly vulnerable to both archers and horse archers, so there would be effective ways of countering this formation, and cavalry could still attack other unit types effectively anyhow.

I had 500 hours in the beta. Five hundred hours of fun I got for free from the developers. So i definitely hoster no ill-will towards them or feel slighted or anything like that, Captain mode, even with its glaring flaws, is incredibly fun. However, unless some sort of change is made to the way infantry interacts with cavalry, and soon, I am unfortunately going to stop playing the game-mode. This isn't meant to be some sort of silly threat or ultimatum. Rather I'm trying to express how important it is for me that there be some substantial change in the game mode. The game, unfortunately, is boring when unit types are cheesy and spammable. And I don't have any particular reason for playing a boring game.

There are other flaws with captain mode, (for example faction balance and what form that should come in) on which I have made posts before and will probably make in the future as well. However if this aspect is fixed, using what I and many others have proposed or not, I feel the game will be substantially improved in that the level of strategy required to win will increase, and cavalry will be significantly less spammable.

Even if it doesn't change, captain mode was a game-mode I had a lot of fun with, and I sincerely thank the devs that put their time and effort into making it.
 

WarMir

Sergeant
Sturgians: Warrior is given the equipment choice of a two handed brace-able pike, replaces the redundant two handed axe.
Two handed axes are awesome, do whatever but i want them to stay.

I don`t play cav so i will not argue but I find cavalry being pretty weak.
 

mikedh08

Recruit
I know that bracing pikes makes sense in theory but yeah it's' gonna be op, esp if we're talking about two dozen pikes vs 8 horses. One wrong move and your entire squad literally dead in 1 second, you think that person isn't going to rage quit and make a 5v6? Only way to balance this is to increase horse numbers, which makes pikes too critical.

More importantly, I think you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Spears are hot garbage in most combat right now, they're only slightly good for halting cavalry. Improve spear attack speed, decrease minimum spear stab distance. I think the minimum stab distance in particular prevents the halting cavalry mechanic extremely often as your spears just bounce off and do zero dmg at least 50% of the time.
 

Eternal

Regular
Spears in a defensive position are not very effective at stopping cavalry, in charge mode they're a lot more effective. I don't feel like the cavalry is overly powerful. However, brace-able pikes would be overly powerful like the last reply said.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I know that bracing pikes makes sense in theory but yeah it's' gonna be op, esp if we're talking about two dozen pikes vs 8 horses. One wrong move and your entire squad literally dead in 1 second, you think that person isn't going to rage quit and make a 5v6? Only way to balance this is to increase horse numbers, which makes pikes too critical.

More importantly, I think you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Spears are hot garbage in most combat right now, they're only slightly good for halting cavalry. Improve spear attack speed, decrease minimum spear stab distance. I think the minimum stab distance in particular prevents the halting cavalry mechanic extremely often as your spears just bounce off and do zero dmg at least 50% of the time.

the halting hitbox needs to be fixed first; they should remove heavy cav; buff light cav to make it playable; horses arent that tanky then
 
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