Can we please talk about how stupid being a vassal is right now

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Dionaea

Veteran
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So I'm pretty sure TW has already said that the intention is for kings to more often take lands that are closer to them. Generally they do, but every so often they do still go for a far away fief if it is particularly weak. That said, there are a lot of other problems with being a vassal.

- Allied armies use poor tactics and give the player very little opportunity to have a major influence on these battles.
- Allied armies are not smart in their food storage or knowing when to break up due to a lack of cohesion. For this reason joining any ally army is a huge food sink as you end up having to make up for it.
- Inter-Kingdom politics are overall pretty lame and there is no way for the player to influence the outcome beyond their vote. There should be a way to try and convince other nobles of your choice.


This comment is in poor taste. @Itisausername is trying to give feedback regarding an issue with the game, and this is what these forums are about. I do not appreciate this. If you have a problem with what they are trying to say then offer logic to support your opinion. Don't flame bait them by calling them a whiner.
He's been given a perfectly reasonable explanation and he keeps giving the same argument which boils down to: "it inconveniences him and thus is a stupid mechanic"

It's pointless to keep having the same discussion just with slight variation in argumentation.
 

Itisausername

Sergeant at Arms
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He's been given a perfectly reasonable explanation and he keeps giving the same argument which boils down to: "it inconveniences him and thus is a stupid mechanic"

It's pointless to keep having the same discussion just with slight variation in argumentation.
Yet you still made the same point over and over that the king is king so he should not care i responded to you're arguments yet you never switched anything up
 

NLCRich

Sergeant
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He's been given a perfectly reasonable explanation and he keeps giving the same argument which boils down to: "it inconveniences him and thus is a stupid mechanic"

It's pointless to keep having the same discussion just with slight variation in argumentation.
No sequence of events excuses degradation of the conversation to this point. If the conversation is pointless, you have the option to walk away. I'm not going to say @Itisausername is blameless, but I think part of it is either a lack of understanding, or language barrier type thing.

Also, the leader is not taking far away fiefs as a rebellion prevention mechanic. The rebellions aren't even implemented yet, and this would actually make it harder for the king to maintain control. If they were to rebel, it would be that much harder for the liege to come all the way out and get that castle back. Just look at history, the more consolidated your lands are, the greater chance of survival. The more dispersed they are, the easier it is to rebel against you. Armies take far away castles for one reason only, if they are weak and look like an easy victory.

So, @Itisausername it is not always about maintaining control of the lands. Sometimes armies siege a castle just for the spoils of victory. It does not have anything to do with tactics really. It's not that the liege cares or doesn't care about the fief. To them, it was an easy victory, so they took it.

However, I think it would make the map less diverse if they never reached out for a fief that was a ways off, so long as it is not happening every time. And it doesn't really. I have lot's of other problems with being a vassal, but this isn't one of them. It's actually better than it used to be.
 

Itisausername

Sergeant at Arms
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No sequence of events excuses degradation of the conversation to this point. If the conversation is pointless, you have the option to walk away. I'm not going to say @Itisausername is blameless, but I think part of it is either a lack of understanding, or language barrier type thing.

Also, the leader is not taking far away fiefs as a rebellion prevention mechanic. The rebellions aren't even implemented yet, and this would actually make it harder for the king to maintain control. If they were to rebel, it would be that much harder for the liege to come all the way out and get that castle back. Just look at history, the more consolidated your lands are, the greater chance of survival. The more dispersed they are, the easier it is to rebel against you. Armies take far away castles for one reason only, if they are weak and look like an easy victory.

So, @Itisausername it is not always about maintaining control of the lands. Sometimes armies siege a castle just for the spoils of victory. It does not have anything to do with tactics really. It's not that the liege cares or doesn't care about the fief. To them, it was an easy victory, so they took it.

However, I think it would make the map less diverse if they never reached out for a fief that was a ways off, so long as it is not happening every time. And it doesn't really. I have lot's of other problems with being a vassal, but this isn't one of them. It's actually better than it used to be.
I never said i am blameless so i am glad you mentioned that although while getting a fief for the spoils of victory is a good reason they sometimes take fiefs way too far away and get caught or just die from the army which does not make sense also who they give it to does not make sense in anyway while it is better than before it does need tweaking while i sometimes mabye want a general fief mabye a bit farther from my base i dont want to have to tour the map every time i need to do something
 

Bigamo

Banned
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And castle/town that is not in the frontier should be looted, not taken. Also TW should make that a castle/town taken have its buildings leveled down to avert late game super inflation and give more to players/NPCs to do.
 

jak1up

Regular
WBWF&S
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The AI makes no sense when it bypasses easy to take fiefs to go take one in the middle of enemy territory.
 

black_bulldog

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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The AI makes no sense when it bypasses easy to take fiefs to go take one in the middle of enemy territory.
The ai is looking at garrison strength which is perfectly logical. Typically they want to heavily outnumber the garrison at least 4:1 but I've seen them go as low as 3:1. I believe the also look at distance so if two garrisons of equal strength but one is further then they target the closest. If you're worried about losing a castle then throw a bunch of men into the garrison till the militia levels get high enough or stay close so you can reinforce it before an enemy starts to siege it.
 

Olympeus

Regular
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So i was playing a vlandian campaign as a vassal i took dominion over battania but kept getting these random fiefs like way too far away

So can anybody please answer to me why will kings only give you things you dont want i think this is something that needs sorting out because i have dunglanys i was healing up and ramdomly i got iyakis so now i had to make a trip to garrison it

I think a change is needed and i am gonna suggest one lets say you have two castles near a town you take that tiwn and because most of you're powerbase is there you get it so its more proximity based is what im saying basically so i dont have to keep touring the world
I thought you could vote against yourself maybe?

Honestly it’s been long enough since I played as a Vassal that I’ve forgotten. I found playing as a Vassal extremely disappointing.

Every AI kingdom is cookie cutter. The policies are identical. The AI employ anti-logic in every war and peace and administrative and tactical decision.

I prefer to play as an independent clan and be less restricted by poor design decisions.

I’m not saying folks can’t enjoy or don’t enjoy playing as a vassal in its current state, but.....

....if some portion of your playerbase choose to ignore a fundamental aspect of the game design like being a Vassal because they can interact with the game better without it, I think it’s fair to say that being a Vassal is pretty stupid right now.
 

Itisausername

Sergeant at Arms
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I thought you could vote against yourself maybe?

Honestly it’s been long enough since I played as a Vassal that I’ve forgotten. I found playing as a Vassal extremely disappointing.

Every AI kingdom is cookie cutter. The policies are identical. The AI employ anti-logic in every war and peace and administrative and tactical decision.

I prefer to play as an independent clan and be less restricted by poor design decisions.

I’m not saying folks can’t enjoy or don’t enjoy playing as a vassal in its current state, but.....

....if some portion of your playerbase choose to ignore a fundamental aspect of the game design like being a Vassal because they can interact with the game better without it, I think it’s fair to say that being a Vassal is pretty stupid right now.
Technically you can vote against yourself but sometimes even then he still gives the fief that you voted against yourself for to you
 

Bigamo

Banned
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The ai is looking at garrison strength which is perfectly logical. Typically they want to heavily outnumber the garrison at least 4:1 but I've seen them go as low as 3:1. I believe the also look at distance so if two garrisons of equal strength but one is further then they target the closest. If you're worried about losing a castle then throw a bunch of men into the garrison till the militia levels get high enough or stay close so you can reinforce it before an enemy starts to siege it.
You bipass border settlements to loot, not to occupy and have yourself insta surrounded.
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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Or the possibility for you to say no! (Well i could technically do if i wher´nt the new kid on the block so to say)....but then getting some slight dislikes from the King or the ones offering it to you. I dont like to get forced something on me when knowing that castle is ****ed because its right in the front of an big war, when its early on and i have little to show for. Then they starting to dislike me anyways because i loose it ^^ makes sense.

But...on the other hand sure sometimes you manage to turn it around or get lucky as the war ends. Heck i even got my Castle saved from other vassals many times. So in that aspect it can be fun and rewarding if you manage to pull it off especially an desperate defense!
But the King is the boss right ? And what King really does give away good assets to people he barely knows or have the influence to say something about it ? think about it. He could even have an real small chance to kick you out of the kingdom if you dont comply which you could for an minigame have a chance to argue against
 
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AnandaShanti

Knight at Arms
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Fiefs should get an auto calc bonus to defense in sieg when behind another fief of same faction, to encourage AI to not go so far away just because of garrison numbers. There should some notion of territory and control even if it's abstract and gamey. Or some other mechanic like state taxes/supplies available when fiefs are adjacent, something to make the AI prefer to take closest fiefs and incent/reward the player for doing so.
 

Itisausername

Sergeant at Arms
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Or the possibility for you to say no! (Well i could technically do if i wher´nt the new kid on the block so to say)....but then getting some slight dislikes from the King or the ones offering it to you. I dont like to get forced something on me when knowing that castle is ****ed because its right in the front of an big war, when its early on and i have little to show for. Then they starting to dislike me anyways because i loose it ^^ makes sense.

But...on the other hand sure sometimes you manage to turn it around or get lucky as the war ends. Heck i even got my Castle saved from other vassals many times. So in that aspect it can be fun and rewarding if you manage to pull it off especially an desperate defense!
But the King is the boss right ? And what King really does give away good assets to people he barely knows or have the influence to say something about it ? think about it. He could even have an real small chance to kick you out of the kingdom if you dont comply which you could for an minigame have a chance to argue against
I mean like on one hand yes but on the other no
 

black_bulldog

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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You bipass border settlements to loot, not to occupy and have yourself insta surrounded.
The ai is looking at what is the easiest to take not what is easiest to hold. It makes sense to the ai just not to you. There is logic there but the prioritization isn't what it should be, but it isn't random. Like many systems in this game it needs a lot of work.
 

Apocal

Sergeant Knight
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Well, it makes sense because being surrounded means nothing in the game, except to make enemy party pathing AI go spastic sometimes.
 

ShakenSpeare

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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And castle/town that is not in the frontier should be looted, not taken. Also TW should make that a castle/town taken have its buildings leveled down to avert late game super inflation and give more to players/NPCs to do.
I 100% agree with this. I absolutely despise the random fortress taking and holding halfway across the world. It's worse in Bannerlord than in Warband. If they want to attack weak, faraway fortresses or towns, they should just sack them and leave. This is supposed to be a world based on the fall of the Roman Empire, not taking over faraway countries and bulding military bases across the world like some modern superpower.
 

Bigamo

Banned
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I 100% agree with this. I absolutely despise the random fortress taking and holding halfway across the world. It's worse in Bannerlord than in Warband. If they want to attack weak, faraway fortresses or towns, they should just sack them and leave. This is supposed to be a world based on the fall of the Roman Empire, not taking over faraway countries and bulding military bases across the world like some modern superpower.
Even modern superpowers make that using the sea. You don't simply bipas the frontline to occupy a town far away and think your army will escape.

And I agree that it is worse in Bannerlord. Probably because the map is way more crowded. Battania for instance is super full of towns and castles in a very small area.
 

Bigamo

Banned
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It's very simple (sure, simpler to talk than to program). Need to put a grid over the map linking and making attack routes for the AI. If the settlement it attached is connected to own territory, it's an occupation, if it is not linked it's to loot and get out.