In Progress Campaign AI Diplomacy (War & Peace)

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Version number
e1.5.8
Branch
Main
Modded/unmodded
Yes, I used mods.
Summary: the AI has a terrible deficit and it looks all scripted (so not really an AI), wars start with a cyclic scheme and the same for peace (always when we lost some fief and we have to receive a certain amount as tribute). Also, voting to start a war or make peace makes no sense, since the votes of the lords are always 100% for or against, making our vote essentially useless. (playing as a vassal)
Media (Screenshots & Video):
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I don't use diplomacy/AI mods.
 
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I agree about the lack of AI, or it is scripted to hard to want war at certain times.
Like if you savescum like me in terms of avoiding 5 front wars with 0% intrest to have peace or haveing to pay obnoxious amount of tribute to get it.. you'll notice that it dont matter who declares war on you, but a faction will regardless.
Example Vlandia declare war on you, savescum, this time its Southern Empire, savescum, now its Battania.

Overall I find the system of declaration of war to be very lacking, and too frequent.
Atleast in Warband you had "Just cause" before wars was declared so it couldnt be done all the time.

I'm not sure its something they are aiming at during EA to have the high amount of wars going on overall or this is how they want it to be(I'm itching to start playing with mods, or mod myself just to lower some of theese issues, as its not really fun when you play those long games post 600-1000 then there is just too much war, not to mention in the of play your faction only have had 14 days of peace in total..).
Peace & tribute should def be tied to a minimum of days and after that it would be no more tribute.
 
e1.5.9.268540 (no mods)
I usually don't want to make peace until I have sold the lords I have been holding captive :smile: They are all released without ransom being paid.

I uploaded a current Save file "Vote.sav" where the vote is out to make peace with Western Empire. I have 6 Lords of that empire with me in my party.

Observations
1. Whether I ransom the prisoners or not before casting my vote, the Tribute offered by the Western Empire does not change.
- with my prisoners in the Dungeon, the prisoner count is 15, after I "sell" my 6, it drops to 9, but the tribute offered remains at 1530
2. The Support for the Vote is 100% before I cast my vote, but the moment I do cast my vote it drops to 99% independent of the influence I pay with. (this is as well documented in the screenshots posted in the first entry of this thread) not sure where the 1% is coming from, since no council member is attributed.
3. It is still possible to actually avoid voting, by going to a different tab, then pressing done

when not casting the vote, one can get back to the diplomacy screen and check the relations with the other empires.
Above the propose button (there are two other wars going on) it says what the pro and cons would be of proposing peace.
but when going to the current issue at vote, the button has changed into Resolve Decision, but the details are not printed above the button anymore. you only get to see that after pressing the button.

In my particular case making peace with the western empire makes sense as two of my bound villages are under attack.
 
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This is still an issue in the latest beta aswell though.

The way I see it is that the AI only wants peace if its 2 fairly strong opponents fight, then they can go for peace with 1.

The problem with this though, is that once you hit the point of "Apex" of the game in terms of power, there will never be peace after that, usually this is around 10k power roughly.

AI stops declaring war on eachother, and only declare war on the kingdome that the player is in, note that this isnt "true" they do declare random small skirmish-wars that typically dont last long, nor any sieges is done.(most likely just to get rid of old tribute or to get a better deal if one of them is in better shape than the other).

What needs to be done though to keep things better is to add in a higher rate of combat-weariness of the realms, so that 1 of various conditions is met :

*Amount of lords captured, if you have 31 in your dungeon of a total of 40, they should offer peace.

*if the amount of social-unrest in your kingdome is too high, they lords should want to stop the wars, to counter the risk of revolt.
Example 3 clans have cities that are on the verge of revolt, they should be more keen on keeping those than to maybe get a shot at a new fief.
Thus if there is 10 clans in the kingdome atleast 30% should be in favor of peace.

*Duration of war, this is more hard to get, but generally speaking over 3 years, gets abit stale to be blunt when there is no progress etc just the same 1-2 fiefs flipping hands back and forth(some players like this sure, but I think I'm not alone in thinking that this is tedious and not fun).(read if you the player act actively in this though, the steamroller will push through it and you'll progress)
This also counters the player-agency in terms of being steamrolling through the lands aswell, which gives room for legacy to have a real reason, you cant conquer the kingdome in 20 yrs or less, you are "halted" by mechanics so at the very least it would take 40-60 yrs if you play with legacy.

*Amount of casulaties, generally speaking if one side is getting steamrolled and their troops return back in bodybags, it dont exactly boost morale on the homefront, if the ratio after a set amount of time by too high in favor of 1 side, it also should drop the will to wage war.
Again this also stops the steamrolling of the player, as typically we have more elites in our parties, so we generally do very well vs the peasent armies of the other lords.

Overall the lack of intrest in peace just tanks the fun though, if you just wanna wage war all the time, you can skirmish?
I just cant get that its "this much more different" from how peace/war was in Warband, where it felt more "fair" and you had time to do other random stuff, and not have to be on the frontlines or it would buckle and go into the state of trenchwarefare with no progress for years.

Dont get me wrong its your game and your designchoices, and mods will fix all theese tweaks, but overall I dont think the playeing experience is "fun" after a while as it gets too be too much on always being full alert, fatigue etc.
 
Ah, good old years I spent my entire life fighting against either Khuzaits or Southern Empire, usually against both and hoped my greedy allies would eventually accept a nice sum of tribute to consider peace. Then executed 30 something Khuzait nobles at once, problem solved. No regrets. Calradia is hard coded to make you a noble slayer.
 
Ah, good old years I spent my entire life fighting against either Khuzaits or Southern Empire, usually against both and hoped my greedy allies would eventually accept a nice sum of tribute to consider peace. Then executed 30 something Khuzait nobles at once, problem solved. No regrets. Calradia is hard coded to make you a noble slayer.
I actually figured out a way to get less warmongering though..
I just kept on dropping the proposition for peace each time I could, to factions that was at war with us that was going to give tribute.

Until the other clans just didnt have enough influence to spend to go against it.
This way I managed to stop 2 wars, and we could focus on 1.

But yah I get that noble slayer is too "good" in terms of getting peace and or when you have de facto destroyed kingdomes that wont make a comeback again, they have 2 clans left + some mercs in their party, but the last wont leave and the mercs get paid from doing raids I suppose - they are like the pestlord problem of Warband.
So yah the desire to go choppin is there..
 
I actually figured out a way to get less warmongering though..
I just kept on dropping the proposition for peace each time I could, to factions that was at war with us that was going to give tribute.

Until the other clans just didnt have enough influence to spend to go against it.
This way I managed to stop 2 wars, and we could focus on 1.

But yah I get that noble slayer is too "good" in terms of getting peace and or when you have de facto destroyed kingdomes that wont make a comeback again, they have 2 clans left + some mercs in their party, but the last wont leave and the mercs get paid from doing raids I suppose - they are like the pestlord problem of Warband.
So yah the desire to go choppin is there..
Not sure I'd like my allies to run out of influence though since I rely on them to build armies for sieges etc. As I'm recently a cursed individual in Calradia and nobles only die in my presence, I try not to fight alongside my allies. :grin: Man, this game is so broken.
 
Not sure I'd like my allies to run out of influence though since I rely on them to build armies for sieges etc. As I'm recently a cursed individual in Calradia and nobles only die in my presence, I try not to fight alongside my allies. :grin: Man, this game is so broken.
Well the death in your presence isnt broken, thats design(a bad choice they made in 1.56 when they meshed life & death into 1).
the death rate just is too high for my taste, and it will be one of the things I mod out(there is mods that fix that already).

I get it that they cant form armies or not big enough etc, but this also cooled down the agression on their part.

I started to see other factions declare on other than ours aswell.

So imo, they need to dial down the overall agression, or make it "matter" and not end up in stalemates or ganking on the faction the player is in.
Oddly enough whenever I make a new faction of my own though, the others leave me be.

You can donate some influence to other clans though. + they build it back up over time so there's that.

But overall the decision for the AI to choose war over peace is too high on the desire for war for my taste.
 
I've pretty recently purchased the game (on 1.5.8 I think) so I didn't really experience how bad the snowballing was early on and looking at the related topic, at least one dev really worked hard to fix it but the solution is definitely cruel to player. On my playthrough we, Aserai, never declared war to anybody actually since I joined as a vassal. They granted me the recently conquered Danustica, we made peace after a while and this lasted for some time. This was the only peace we had since I joined them. Until I eventually snapped and killed half of nobility, the cycle was something like:

- we gain territory from SE
- Khuzaits declare war
- we lose the territory to them
- make peace with SE
- gain lost territory back from Khuzaits
- SE declares war
- we lose the territory to SE
- make peace with Khuzaits
- gain territory from SE

Whenever you feel like making some progress on one of them, the other declares war on you. Well, I'll be honest. there has been numerous times SE and Khuzait fought against each other as well... for ONE DAY and immediately made peace. This becomes so tiresome eventually, you can't focus on any other aspect of the game from waging war. I've been away from home for so long fighting wars that my wife, who was a governor back in Danustica, calls me "friend" now when I talk to her. No hope for a dynasty anymore I reckon. :facepalm:
 
So actually I'm at the point now where typically the kingdome wont have peace even when fighting against 3 or more kingdomes.

But after I starved the kingdome of influence, now haveing 2 at war is "enough" when 3rd declares war they are quick to go to peace with one of the other.

So I think this is an issue that they have too much influence and thus know they can form armies in the long run etc etc.

I think this is also why up until about 600-800 days, that they will go for peace earlier, but post that time roughly or if the kingdome is "very powerful" it wont.

Read I didnt propose the last 2 peacedeals that got voted through..
 
I've pretty recently purchased the game (on 1.5.8 I think) so I didn't really experience how bad the snowballing was early on and looking at the related topic, at least one dev really worked hard to fix it but the solution is definitely cruel to player. On my playthrough we, Aserai, never declared war to anybody actually since I joined as a vassal. They granted me the recently conquered Danustica, we made peace after a while and this lasted for some time. This was the only peace we had since I joined them. Until I eventually snapped and killed half of nobility, the cycle was something like:

- we gain territory from SE
- Khuzaits declare war
- we lose the territory to them
- make peace with SE
- gain lost territory back from Khuzaits
- SE declares war
- we lose the territory to SE
- make peace with Khuzaits
- gain territory from SE

Whenever you feel like making some progress on one of them, the other declares war on you. Well, I'll be honest. there has been numerous times SE and Khuzait fought against each other as well... for ONE DAY and immediately made peace. This becomes so tiresome eventually, you can't focus on any other aspect of the game from waging war. I've been away from home for so long fighting wars that my wife, who was a governor back in Danustica, calls me "friend" now when I talk to her. No hope for a dynasty anymore I reckon. :facepalm:
This sums it up though..
its not "fun" for players who want to do other aspects of the game than just the constant warfare.
Needs to be dialed down the overall agression so that there is some marginal time of peace, imo there is some mechanics they should add in and that is things like
1. if war is declared there can be no peace with that faction for 10 days or ideally 30, so you avoid those 1 days wars.
2. when war is ended - peace -> a minimum of days of peace should be implemented like in Warband with 30 days the minimum and ideally up to 100 aswell(with higher tribute)
3. End tribute when the peace-treaty is over, so it makes sense that the "greedy" sides want to declare war to get tribute again..
 
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