Native Completed Calamity and John's Team Tournament | CJ's TT

[KissMyAxe]

Nothing against the Maps Kiss. I just don't think they are a good replacement for Plains.

And there I had TMW yesterday during the playtest urging me not to show the maps to Wappaw But, seriously, I'm still waiting on you to check the maps out and give me more detailed comments on why you don't think they are good replacements and how you think good replacements should look like. Let me know if Wappaw would like to participate in a playtest.

 

[Catholic]

You seem to be confusing plains with "flat plains" Some steppes are even considered plains.

Besided... what's wrong with random mountains anyways? As Dawg said, try the new.... it would be new. Unless he would like to retract those words.

Point stands. One would have to be a terrible caller to decide that cav is 'utterly useless' on a map which (I assume) you describe as hilly.

There would be a hundred and one things wrong with random mountains, primarily summarized in the three words of 'It's not fun.'

Deciding between the two is a matter of community preparedness (progression of the plains map pack) and eagerness to start up another tournament. If we really want to jump back into it quickly and the map pack isn't ready, we need something to address the current issues. If we're willing to wait or if the map pack progresses rapidly, then we're in good shape.

Currently a matter of debate. KissMyAxe has more people working on the maps now (many of whom are experienced) and the deciding factor is whether or not the maps are good and a worthy substitute for Plains. If not, they won't be used. I'm personally confident in Kiss's abilities, but as a tournament host I will be very real and objective.

 

[Lagstro]

There would be a hundred and one things wrong with random mountains, primarily summarized in the three words of 'It's not fun.'

隐藏

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

This

 

[Catholic]

It's certainly an idea, and if you have people that would support Random Mountains then it'll get done. The issue is that it's the first time I've ever seriously heard of the idea.

 

[Lagstro]

As long as the map doesn't have any of those almost impossible to climb mountains which allow you to move up one inch every minute, I see no reason not to allow them.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

You seem to be confusing plains with "flat plains" Some steppes are even considered plains.

Besided... what's wrong with random mountains anyways? As Dawg said, try the new.... it would be new. Unless he would like to retract those words.

*Insert where I said anything your insinuating here if I cared to get into said pissing contest.
Honestly you're making some serious assumptions about my thoughts on Plains.

 

[KissMyAxe]

Deciding between the two is a matter of community preparedness (progression of the plains map pack) and eagerness to start up another tournament. If we really want to jump back into it quickly and the map pack isn't ready, we need something to address the current issues. If we're willing to wait or if the map pack progresses rapidly, then we're in good shape.

Exactly. Basically, yesterday's playtest has revealed a few deficiencies in the current maps which I am working on fixing (as well as toying with some new ideas). To some degree, I'm willing to accommodate for any tournament starting date starting from two weeks from now. Of course, if you wait longer, the maps are likely to be better and more varied. But, if you want to have the maps in two weeks, that can be done (I'll just need someone to send me some good espresso beans ): I'm pretty confident I can have 3-4 maps playtested by then and maybe have a map selection randomizer as well. What I need from the community is teams/clans lining up for playtests and eager to post feedback on the forums (I might not have time to witness all the playtests). I have been sending PM's to CJTT team captains asking them to participate in the playtest, but haven't gotten any replies. I'll be sending another round tonight (also looking for a PR manager to spam people with PM's for me ).

Currently a matter of debate. KissMyAxe has more people working on the maps now (many of whom are experienced) and the deciding factor is whether or not the maps are good and a worthy substitute for Plains. If not, they won't be used. I'm personally confident in Kiss's abilities, but as a tournament host I will be very real and objective.

I agree with that and as a tournament <insert a small inconsequential role here> I will strive to make sure the maps are of the highest quality. Eternal and me ahve already agreed that if PiMP is not ready in time, we are dropping it in favor of the old random-plains-but-no-cliff-textures adage.

 

[Wappaw_Pizza42]

I don't see what was wrong with the last tourney's take on Plains. I don't see what rules we need to change. Would any respected community member like to start a new tournament with the same or very similar rules?

I think the last tournament was a success... Why are some people feeling that it's necessary to change things?

 

[Lagstro]

*Insert where I said anything your insinuating here if I cared to get into said pissing contest.
Honestly you're making some serious assumptions about my thoughts on Plains.

Well now the question is... are they correct?

I don't see what was wrong with the last tourney's take on Plains. I don't see what rules we need to change. Would any respected community member like to start a new tournament with the same or very similar rules?

I think the last tournament was a success... Why are some people feeling that it's necessary to change things?

I like the rules as they are as well, and honestly I do not mind the extra maps that they are trying to add, what grinds my gears is that they want them to replace random plains.

 

[KissMyAxe]

what grinds my gears is that they want them to replace random plains.

What I'm having a hard time understanding is why people keep calling plains selected according to CJTT/NASTe rules random. I mean, if you only select maps that don't have cliff textures, and then either select a very flat map or a map that has a few rolling hills (depends on the team selecting the map), then it's not random! If I can accurately describe something then it's not random -- it's deterministic.
I'll hardly have any problem if the matches on random plains start without any re-rolls: you gotta adapt to anything the generator throws at you. That includes terribly skewed and deformed maps because, guess what, it is also in the set of "random" maps. But, time and again have I witnessed that people actually have a very specific idea of what a plains map should look like and that's contradictory with the whole idea of "randomness".

 

[Wappaw_Pizza42]

I appreciate that you are putting time and effort into solving what could be perceived as a major issue with matches/scrims.

That being said, I don't agree with taking Plains out of the rotation of maps.

 

[Orion]

I appreciate that you are putting time and effort into solving what could be perceived as a major issue with matches/scrims.

That being said, I don't agree with taking Plains out of the rotation of maps.

With the map pack, plains would still be in the rotation but not in its current randomly-generated state. You would be able to pick from a variety of varied plains maps that suit your needs.

 

[KoA John]

I don't see what was wrong with the last tourney's take on Plains. I don't see what rules we need to change. Would any respected community member like to start a new tournament with the same or very similar rules?

I think the last tournament was a success... Why are some people feeling that it's necessary to change things?

As I've already said many many times before

With current accepted rules, the team who chooses plains gets to reroll to the terrain that they want for their faction that they are on the swap (swdia flat/no trees, vaegirs, hill/trees etc)

Thats the problem with plains and the fact that its not completely random as it should be

ps. who likes 100 re-rolls 

 

[Lagstro]

Don't you think that customized plain maps will get boring after a while just like every other map? Some of us still enjoy that little taste of randomness. Something new generated without a person being able to control it (which sadly it's slightly controlled by the person picking the map... but let's be honest... re rolling has f'd up the picker many times, and with the limited amount of re rolls you can't really say that the picker get's anything close to what they ideally want) I just personally find  that many random plains maps are actually pretty awesome, and will not bear seeing that choice taken away.
Yea, many re rolls,  a big pain in the arse, but at least you are able to play on 2 entirely new maps.

 

[KoA John]

Sorry but rerolling 10 times in the finals isnt random

Yea, many re rolls,  a big pain in the arse,

Quoted 

 

[Lagstro]

Well actually Johnny Boy, you can re roll 10,000 times, and it will still be random, just think about it.

 

[KoA John]

Theoretically that is possible if theres enough cliff maps 

 

[Mad_Dawg]

*Insert where I said anything your insinuating here if I cared to get into said pissing contest.
Honestly you're making some serious assumptions about my thoughts on Plains.

Well now the question is... are they correct?

It seems you don't grasp the concept of assuming.

 

[Orion]

*Insert where I said anything your insinuating here if I cared to get into said pissing contest.
Honestly you're making some serious assumptions about my thoughts on Plains.

Well now the question is... are they correct?

It seems you don't grasp the concept of assuming.

I don't follow. How is correctness of his assumptions indicative of his understanding of the principles of an assumption? One can assume anything, regardless of correctness.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

*Insert where I said anything your insinuating here if I cared to get into said pissing contest.
Honestly you're making some serious assumptions about my thoughts on Plains.

Well now the question is... are they correct?

It seems you don't grasp the concept of assuming.

I don't follow. How is correctness of his assumptions indicative of his understanding of the principles of an assumption? One can assume anything, regardless of correctness.

tl;dr