Bug or just dumb AI?

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Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I suppose, but the issue when having such a large faction and being surrounded is that there is no way to defend in a good way, there is simply too many attacking armies, so even if I have more troops in parties, if I don't have enough armies, then I can't defend.

And it is retarded for the AI to suggest declaring more wars when you are already in 2+ wars.
The problem is that you probably don't even have more troops in parties. I mean the numbers on your strength screen don't match the numbers of troops you have on the ground. I am a vassal of the Aserai right now and our troop strength is supposed to be 13,000 and we are at war with the Khuzaits which are supposed to only have 6000 troops yet when I went to the Army screen to gather men for an army, all of my factions lords were in one of 3 armies already created. That being the case you would think each army would have like 4000 men since 4 x 3 is 12,000 but nope, they only had about 1000 men each. So where are the 9,000-10,000 missing men? Meanwhile the Khuzaits also have 3 armies roaming around.....all with about 1000 men each thus achieving parity with my Kingdom who should be twice as strong as them.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
The problem is that you probably don't even have more troops in parties. I mean the numbers on your strength screen don't match the numbers of troops you have on the ground. I am a vassal of the Aserai right now and our troop strength is supposed to be 13,000 and we are at war with the Khuzaits which are supposed to only have 6000 troops yet when I went to the Army screen to gather men for an army, all of my factions lords were in one of 3 armies already created. That being the case you would think each army would have like 4000 men since 4 x 3 is 12,000 but nope, they only had about 1000 men each. So where are the 9,000-10,000 missing men? Meanwhile the Khuzaits also have 3 armies roaming around.....all with about 1000 men each thus achieving parity with my Kingdom who should be twice as strong as them.
It counts garrisons too IIRC which is dumb
 

momo1

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
thats why i never go into creating my own kingdom. because of these dogs who will fight u 6 vs 1, because of stupid friendly clans who decline peace propose, because of stupid companion parties who never defending my villages and always suck cock every battle they got invade into
This mod allows you to make guard parties that will patrol around your villages.

How to Deinstall
___________________________________

You can safely enable and disable the mod. But make sure to call back all your garrison guard parties if you don't intend to use this mod on your save file anymore.
 

Maown

Recruit
This mod allows you to make guard parties that will patrol around your villages.

How to Deinstall
___________________________________

You can safely enable and disable the mod. But make sure to call back all your garrison guard parties if you don't intend to use this mod on your save file anymore.
yes, arigato for dis. mod makers are the ones who realy deserve to get paid. not TW.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
yes, arigato for dis. mod makers are the ones who realy deserve to get paid. not TW.
That's not really fair. The staff surely deserves to get paid.
Most people, including myself, are upset with the leadership and the direction they are taking the game, but it's not fair to take it out on the developers and artists etc. Just look at my man mexxico here. A true hero.
 

Maown

Recruit
That's not really fair. The staff surely deserves to get paid.
Most people, including myself, are upset with the leadership and the direction they are taking the game, but it's not fair to take it out on the developers and artists etc. Just look at my man mexxico here. A true hero.
dunno wat they are actualy doing but it looks like -snip- tryin to write code. i'll remind you

Development​

In September 2012, TaleWorlds Entertainment announced that the game was in development and released a teaser trailer for it.
2012 dowg, 8 years of development. and what we got?
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
dunno wat they are actualy doing but it looks like -snip- tryin to write code. i'll remind you

Development​

In September 2012, TaleWorlds Entertainment announced that the game was in development and released a teaser trailer for it.
2012 dowg, 8 years of development. and what we got?

It is legitimate to be critical towards the product, but I think your comment is both extremely misplaced and misguided at the same time.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I agree with Terco.

Bannerlord is far from what we all expected it to be. However please keep in mind that people are working from home and efficiency isn't as high as it maybe could be.

Also, the developers, artists, writers etc. are not to blame for the direction the game is taking, or deciding which features are made a priority.

Point the blame towards the right people.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
It counts garrisons too IIRC which is dumb
The numbers still don't add up. In my modded game, the Khuzait strength was listed as 6,300. The city garrisons were all at 1000+ and the castles all at 600-800 and I am also using Calradia Expanded which gives the Khuzait's 2 additional cities and I think the same number of additional castles. That being the case, in my play through the Khuzaits hadn't lost any of their original territory so that would be 8 cities and 11 castles. Even if we don't count militia we are talking at least 5,400 and likely more non-militia troops just to garrison the towns and castles PLUS 3 armies of 1000+ each that I saw as being active on the map. That would put their strength at closer to 8,500 to 9,000, not 6,300 so I am not sure how the game comes up with the troop strength numbers.

Also, we had captured I think 17 lords while they had only captured 5 of ours. Some of those lords I know would have escaped but some of ours would have as well and I can confirm that I had 9 lords actively imprisoned in my town and the Khuzait's were still matching on numbers. I suspect that there is some mechanism that ensures that each faction at war can sustain around 3,000 troops actively in armies no matter what the circumstances just to keep things balanced.

What is frustrating with this of course is that I am actively cheating by having my damage received for me, my party and allied parties turned down to 1/3rd and as would be no surprise, literally crushing the Khuzait armies one after another and capturing their lords to remove their ability to bring troops to back unto the battlefield yet despite this, they always have the same number of troops countering my factions armies and I could make no lasting headway against them. The problem of course is that this just sort of trivializes everything making none of the actions you take during a war feel very meaningful. Even with me crushing every army I could find we only managed to take two castles, both taken by me, and we only retained them because I forced a peace using my influence before the Khuzaits could take back the castles. Both were under siege when I forced the peace through and both would have fell had I not forced the peace.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I think, and really hope, that it isn't as simple as 1 point per unit.
Rather I think, AND HOPE, that lower tier units contribute fewer points than higher tier units. Garrison soldiers should also contribute fewer points.
Militia, if that should even be counted at all, should contribute even less.
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
@Stromming I examined your save file and do some tweakings. Your lords do not accept peace mostly because your kingdom is so strong compared all other one by one. However total power of all kingdoms is a bit more than your kingdom. Anyway even situation is this its of course unacceptable your lords do not accept making peace with any of these offers. After tweakings your kingdom lords are ready to make peace with 3 (Aserai, Battania, Vlandia) of 8 kingdoms as seen below :

e9AMR.png

jnNiF.png

4Zpx6.png

vm9ih.png

4AQV8.png

imCoO.png

F1fyN.png

3fXAq.png

I will try to add changes to a hotfix if possible otherwise they will be added at 1.5.10 (2 next patches)

By the way at your save file there were 8000 mobile parties (normal value is 1000-1500) on world which happened because of infinite bandit bug (which is fixed but bandit parties are still there). I advice you to start a new game. It seems unplayable that way. Fps is so low and all world is full of parties & tracks.
 
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Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
@Stromming I examined your save file and do some tweakings. Your lords do not accept peace mostly because your kingdom is so strong compared all other one by one. However total power of all kingdoms is a bit more than your kingdom. Anyway even situation is this its of course unacceptable your lords do not accept making peace with any of these offers. After tweakings your kingdom lords are ready to make peace with 3 (Aserai, Battania, Vlandia) of 8 kingdoms as seen below :

e9AMR.png

jnNiF.png

4Zpx6.png

vm9ih.png

4AQV8.png

imCoO.png

F1fyN.png

3fXAq.png

I will try to add changes to a hotfix if possible otherwise they will be added at 1.5.10 (2 next patches)

By the way at your save file there were 8000 mobile parties (normal value is 1000-1500) on world which happened because of infinite bandit bug (which is fixed but bandit parties are still there). I advice you to start a new game. It seems unplayable that way. Fps is so low and all world is full of parties & tracks.
Nice this seems like a great adjustment for late game. Thank you once again.

Some thoughts evoked while reading this post, we really need these kingdom diplomacy screens to better reflect why the tribute score is what it is. Right now these are just the cool stats about war but most don't impact the tribute score so it just adds a ton of confusion to what is going on. I know you've mentioned personally wanting changes there, is there something already planned or do we need more suggestions for it?
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
Nice this seems like a great adjustment for late game. Thank you once again.

Some thoughts evoked while reading this post, we really need these kingdom diplomacy screens to better reflect why the tribute score is what it is. Right now these are just the cool stats about war but most don't impact the tribute score so it just adds a ton of confusion to what is going on. I know you've mentioned personally wanting changes there, is there something already planned or do we need more suggestions for it?
Yes, we need to show more data in these screens for example town / castle / clan counts... Even these are added still it is not enough. Because having more settlements actually is not a reason for getting better tribute offers - its actually opposite, if you have high strength & clan count but if you have less number of fiefs your clans want war more. Anyway there are some works for these stuff to inform player better but I do not know what is planned actually.

During war / peace votings there will be explanations also. Its on development queue.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
@Stromming I examined your save file and do some tweakings. Your lords do not accept peace mostly because your kingdom is so strong compared all other one by one. However total power of all kingdoms is a bit more than your kingdom. Anyway even situation is this its of course unacceptable your lords do not accept making peace with any of these offers. After tweakings your kingdom lords are ready to make peace with 3 (Aserai, Battania, Vlandia) of 8 kingdoms as seen below :

I will try to add changes to a hotfix if possible otherwise they will be added at 1.5.10 (2 next patches)

By the way at your save file there were 8000 mobile parties (normal value is 1000-1500) on world which happened because of infinite bandit bug (which is fixed but bandit parties are still there). I advice you to start a new game. It seems unplayable that way. Fps is so low and all world is full of parties & tracks.
Superstar Mexxico strikes again!
Thanks for this, and these tweaks will surely be needed as it is basically impossible to grow a new kingdom if you don't start on an edge / corner due to being surrounded and outmanned.

Can I ask what kind of tweaks you did, or is it long and complicated?

I also already started a new campaign haha, I didn't have it in me to chase down all bugged bandit parties after hotfix.

Thanks so much!
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Yes, we need to show more data in these screens for example town / castle / clan counts... Even these are added still it is not enough. Because having more settlements actually is not a reason for getting better tribute offers - its actually opposite, if you have high strength & clan count but if you have less number of fiefs your clans want war more. Anyway there are some works for these stuff to inform player better but I do not know what is planned actually.

During war / peace votings there will be explanations also. Its on development queue.
Question for you Mexxico. I think what your describing here is what was happening to me in my previous Kingdom play through. I had a decent clan count and fairly high strength but could use a few more fiefs to go around. Based on what your saying, this is probably way my clans wanted wars with 2-3 or more factions all at once.

My question though is when does simple logic kick in on these friendly faction war declarations votes? I mean if we are already fully committed to a war, sieging 2 of the enemy fiefs simultaneously, as King I am already giving them what they want, a chance to acquire more fiefs. Why would they want to open up a war on 1 or more additional fronts? For the game to have a realistic feel, these sorts of things shouldn't actually happen and it is one of the most frustrating things I have found when playing the game.

I mean I intellectually get it. The AI is using a formula designed to make the game challenging for the player and if it sees some sort of imbalance like a player Kingdom being strong with too few fiefs, it would want to have that player Kingdom be at war. That makes sense but the whole voting to open up war on 2, 3 or more fronts I don't get. I guess I would like wars to be more logical. Kingdoms declaring wars when it actually made sense for the to declare wars and also declaring peace/requesting peace when it made sense to make peace.

Anyway, glad to hear your working on some changes and I hope they do the trick but right now it is just very immersion breaking to have my factions lords constantly wanting to be at war with 2-3+ factions simultaneously.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
It would be nice if the AI could even comprehend "fronts".
If the faction is strong enough, maybe it could be acceptable open up an adjacent front, but it should never open up an opposite one.

Would also be nice if the AI could consider the travel distance / time between fronts.

I guess we can't ask for too much however. And who knows what magic Mexxico is doing with his tweaking. That man is a miracle worker.
 
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