Buff the spear and pikes!

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Seafoodking

Recruit
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1. Make spear and pike do damage at point blank, just less damage, and able to push off enemies.
2. Make spear and pike knock down horsemen. This should be a base % and gets increased chance by the polearm skills, and lowered by the riding skill of the horsemen.

Feel free to chip in your suggestions!
 

Apocal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Make spear and pike knock down horsemen.
They added this in a recent patch, I think 1.5.4 beta last month.

I agree with no. 1; it is a bit stupid that sword cuts can do more than a spear thrusting into someone.
 

Eugene Shutto

Veteran
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And this ridiculous spear and shield tournament sparrings when you stand and poke another unlucky bastard with thrust damage equals mosquito bite
 

Dr-Shinobi

Sergeant Knight
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But they do this already and theres a reason why they do less then an ex sword because you have reach and an multi fighting weapon that are effective against both inf and cav
 

Medivhtratos

Sergeant
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Push off is a perk, but it seems it isn't in the game yet. like #yadexfutsu# perk in 2h seems still be missing(but I thing they will change this perk, because it would look strange, without animation).
 

Dr-Shinobi

Sergeant Knight
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Push off is a perk, but it seems it isn't in the game yet. like #yadexfutsu# perk in 2h seems still be missing(but I thing they will change this perk, because it would look strange, without animation).
Well i have pushed off people from the horse many times with the spear so idk about that

Should be some in this one..1:58 is one
 

Theofilos

Squire
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go get hooked spears from battania to push horsemen down also they got rid of the shields from tournaments when its a spear involved nice.
 

Apocal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Well i have pushed off people from the horse many times with the spear so idk about that
I believe he is referring to Keep at Bay (bonus to pushing opponents back on a successful thrust) and/or Hard Knock (attacks over 25 damage knock opponents back).

Dismounting certainly works though.
 

Dr-Shinobi

Sergeant Knight
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I believe he is referring to Keep at Bay (bonus to pushing opponents back on a successful thrust) and/or Hard Knock (attacks over 25 damage knock opponents back).

Dismounting certainly works though.
Ah yeah the inf vs inf perk..mb. Yeah dont think its in yet to. But i think the knockdown ability are though, not sure if i can remember it correctly though so dont quote me on that one
 

Eugene Shutto

Veteran
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It is braced guys.
I'm curious though, if I use hooked battania spear do i still need braces perk , or dismounting will work without it ?
 

Apocal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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It is braced guys.
I'm curious though, if I use hooked battania spear do i still need braces perk , or dismounting will work without it ?
Dismounting works with any polearm if you have Braced. But that perk is already implemented whereas the push back perks are not.
 

black_bulldog

Squire
WBWF&SVC
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It is braced guys.
I'm curious though, if I use hooked battania spear do i still need braces perk , or dismounting will work without it ?
The hooked spears/polearms work for sure I've used them to dismount cavalry many times. It even works for the crafted hooked spears. It's not guaranteed but if you get a clean hit especially from behind you have a decent chance at dismounting an opponent. For me it seems to be a bit easier to do while riding a horse than on foot.
 

Marajah

Recruit
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There are several problems with spears.

Regarding damage:
- I think the main problem with spears' damage is they balance it the same way for mounted and foot combat, so in order to avoid ridiculous amount of damage with uncouched spears while riding a mule, their damage output have a very low ground. Even in early game, a good spear in a fast riding horse will 1-shot many enemies. Hitting a fast horseman coming your way also does ridiculous damage. Hitting anything stationary does 20ish damage.

Regarding positioning and chance to hit:
- Fix Thrusting. It's impossible to thrust with a character's back to something with both spears and swords. When they pull their elbows backwards before the attack, it cancels the animation if it gets stuck into any object. This makes spears unusable on the front lines.
- Although they have better reach, their handling is horrible and it's much easier to miss a poke than a swing in messy battlefields.
- Their attack animations get caught a lot on allies. I tried making the tallest character possible only to see if I could poke enemies with a pike over friendly lines. Bumping any millimeter in any ally will negate damage COMPLETELY. You have to find a clear gap between your troops, and then we go back to messy battlefields, where that is nearly impossible.
- Pushing isn't implemented properly. The only way to keep opponents at bay is by being faster and running away from them. That works with any other weapon, so it's kinda redundant. It will make any weapon better.
- I did some testing with around 40 vlandian pikemen. Since they have good stats and a good sword, they will get more kills than tier1/2 troops, but still do a lot worse than the same amount of t4 vlandian billmen. If you order a charge, they will draw their swords. If you put them on shield wall formation and order advance, they march forward in a nice phalanx, then proceed to miss the initial attacks, keep trying to poke enemies at dead range while that noise of botched attacks play out, get clubbed and die. It's a hilarious way to suicide them into looters.

Possible ways to fix this:
- Fix thrusting! This should be a priority since it feels more like a bug than a mechanic.
- Better base damage with spears and less scaling with speed, so we could do the same damage we do with other weapons on foot, while mule riding still being bad for combat.
- Pushing back enemies that block spear attacks. I suppose that's on the making.
- It would be nice if spears did a little damage if they got deflected on allies, but still did some damage. Grazing enemies with a spear tip does very little damage. It could apply the same logic for deflected attacks on friendly troops
 

CrazyElf

Regular
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The problem right now is that thrusting spears do too little compared to swords, and axes.


Thrusting remains difficult to use and rather unwieldy.

In relation to swords, in real combat spears were often the main weapon and swords were used more as a backup. I would like to see Bannerlord head in that direction.


Thrusting speed needs a buff, as does damage.
 

AndrewArt

Recruit
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The problem right now is that thrusting spears do too little compared to swords, and axes.


Thrusting remains difficult to use and rather unwieldy.

In relation to swords, in real combat spears were often the main weapon and swords were used more as a backup. I would like to see Bannerlord head in that direction.


Thrusting speed needs a buff, as does damage.
yeah, that would mean that a disarm mechanic is necessary. Which I would honestly love to see. Imagine disarming your opponent by chamber blocking him or something, then he has to pull his secondary weapon (sword). That would be cool.
 

Apocal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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The problem right now is that thrusting spears do too little compared to swords, and axes.


Thrusting remains difficult to use and rather unwieldy.

In relation to swords, in real combat spears were often the main weapon and swords were used more as a backup. I would like to see Bannerlord head in that direction.


Thrusting speed needs a buff, as does damage.
In the MP beta, spears were apparently that good. Then were nerfed.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
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It's a bit surprising to me that nowadays after all the alpha/beta pre-release process and all the time elapsed from EA, the spears (and quite a few other weapons) get stuck in the collider capsules (both in surrounding bots and the walls).
 

sniparsexe

Squire
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I might be remembering it wrong but IIRC spears were op af in the closed beta and players screeched so much that TW had to nerf them significantly
 

AndrewArt

Recruit
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I might be remembering it wrong but IIRC spears were op af in the closed beta and players screeched so much that TW had to nerf them significantly
I think we need shorter spears to be more effective in infantry battles... Longer spears should be less effective I'd think, or at least slower to thrust. I'm sure we can find a balance and make spears viable
 

Dr-Shinobi

Sergeant Knight
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I think we need shorter spears to be more effective in infantry battles... Longer spears should be less effective I'd think, or at least slower to thrust. I'm sure we can find a balance and make spears viable
But there is the manivilion short spears that are more powerful then the longer ones. Think you people should do an full infantry play thru, making it to top skills before judging the spears to fast. They are pretty formidable multiweapons at this point and perfect cav killers to