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Buff spears.

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Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Spears are a support weapon not a 1v1 weapon mostly.

I've played with spears in skirmish, they are very very good in groupfighting, they allow you to have a very precise hit on someone. If you know how to use it though.
 

hoonii

Knight
Spears are a support weapon not a 1v1 weapon mostly.

I've played with spears in skirmish, they are very very good in groupfighting, they allow you to have a very precise hit on someone. If you know how to use it though.
Finally someone I can agree with.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
i disagree,
their potential shouldn't be a support weapon only
and they should use swings to do blunt damage and do good feints when unshielded.
 

hoonii

Knight
i disagree,
their potential shouldn't be a support weapon only
and they should use swings to do blunt damage and do good feints when unshielded.
So place them at the same position as swords and other 1h weapons and 2 handed weapons? So they become a 1v1 weapon rather than a support and anti-cav weapon?
Your proposal would render all other weapons useless and spears very OP.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
So place them at the same position as swords and other 1h weapons and 2 handed weapons? So they become a 1v1 weapon rather than a support and anti-cav weapon?
Your proposal would render all other weapons useless and spears very OP.
not necessarily,
warband spears did this and they weren't OP
because they deliver low damage overall and they tend to glance in close range
 

hoonii

Knight
not necessary,
warband spears did this and they weren't OP
because they deliver low damage overall and they tend to glance in close range
If they can balance it, be my guest. It needs very low damage to be balanced (also slow like the long menavlion) blunt damage in Bannerlord is broken.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
If they can balance it, be my guest. It needs very low damage to be balanced (also slow like the long menavlion) blunt damage in Bannerlord is broken.
dude, i'm not the best player, but i do very good in casual servers
i just want to feel glorious again and to role play as a good spearman
look how fun it was to marshal art ur spear 😢

 

hoonii

Knight
dude, i'm not the best player, but i do very good in casual servers
i just want to feel glorious again and to role play as a good spearman
look how fun it was to marshal art ur spear 😢

Imagine this with the current meta in Bannerlord, basically a menavlion but with lower damage on everyone.
Logically speaking a spear hilt shouldn't really hurt a heavy infantry in chainmail armor or a light infantry with leather armor. Poking is fine, it would break the interlink of chains but hitting your opponent with the spear hilt=hitting them with a wooden stick, your opponent would probably go "Ow" and slash your chest.
If everything in Bannerlord was identical to that of Warband's, what would be the point of calling the game Bannerlord, instead of Warband 2.0 with better graphics? :grin:
My idea is that not all spears should be able to be swung. There can be specific spears that have a broader tip(like the Khuzait throwing spear) so you can deal cut damage with it easier but the hitbox would be smaller than that of menavlion or the glaive, it would be the length of a short or medium spear to balance things out.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
Imagine this with the current meta in Bannerlord, basically a menavlion but with lower damage on everyone.
Logically speaking a spear hilt shouldn't really hurt a heavy infantry in chainmail armor or a light infantry with leather armor. Poking is fine, it would break the interlink of chains but hitting your opponent with the spear hilt=hitting them with a wooden stick, your opponent would probably go "Ow" and slash your chest.
If everything in Bannerlord was identical to that of Warband's, what would be the point of calling the game Bannerlord, instead of Warband 2.0 with better graphics? :grin:
My idea is that not all spears should be able to be swung. There can be specific spears that have a broader tip(like the Khuzait throwing spear) so you can deal cut damage with it easier but the hitbox would be smaller than that of menavlion or the glaive, it would be the length of a short or medium spear to balance things out.

i have absolutely no problem with what u said
i don't want another warband, i don't want to get stuck to the old days.
but where is the low damage shorter menavlion ?
a one that could benefit from a shield
a one that is faster to compromise it's damage
a one that is available to more than 1 faction

menavlion is the closest thing to what i want, but it's a Spam heavy weapon
it feels like a heavy axe, maybe it is, but it's not a light spear
 

hoonii

Knight
i have absolutely no problem with what u said
i don't want another warband, i don't want to get stuck to the old days.
but where is the low damage shorter menavlion ?
a one that could benefit from a shield
a one that is faster to compromise it's damage
a one that is available to more than 1 faction

menavlion is the closer thing to what i want, but it's a Spam heavy weapon
it feels like a heavy axe, maybe it is, but it's not a light spear
Speaking from a skirmish minded side, considering in order to swing spears you need to two hand them, using it as a swinging weapon makes you very vulnerable to archers, if you're in a fight with someone(1v1) and an archer is shooting at you, you will die to the archer probably.
At least this is on paper, menavlion infantry is very powerful right now, somehow people manage to survive even when there are archers, I guess because most of the time cavalry disturbs the archer, this can work for 2 handed spears too.
In my opinion it would more of a fun weapon rather than a competitive selection, because the damage would be low it would get outperformed by 1 handed weapons and people really doesn't want to sacrifice a shield for 2 handed spear.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
Speaking from a skirmish minded side, considering in order to swing spears you need to two hand them, using it as a swinging weapon makes you very vulnerable to archers, if you're in a fight with someone(1v1) and an archer is shooting at you, you will die to the archer probably.
At least this is on paper, menavlion infantry is very powerful right now, somehow people manage to survive even when there are archers, I guess because most of the time cavalry disturbs the archer, this can work for 2 handed spears too.
In my opinion it would more of a fun weapon rather than a competitive selection, because the damage would be low it would get outperformed by 1 handed weapons and people really doesn't want to sacrifice a shield for 2 handed spear.

i seek fun & roleplaying, and i think it will be good for competitive too
because of it's versatility against booth horses & infantry
 

Chaoslian

Veteran
There are arguments for not changing spears that i don't understand. Please keep in mind, that i talk about 2h spears. Spear and shield is mostly okay, besides of glancing to easy

Spears are good as support weapons
Well, they are, if you are in a 2vs1 sitatuation. And balancing a weapon on 2vs1 doesn't seem right to me.
If you are in a 2vs2 fight, you can usually have 1 stab at your buddys opponent, until you will get facehugged. People are not keeping on distance, and wait until you stab them...
So you have this first stab, and after that, you're useless, as soon as someone is decent in blocking or brings a shield.

Spears are used in skirmish
Are there really people, that play skirmish with a 2h spear? I can't really imagine that. 2h weapons needed a shield to be able to play skirmish, cause there were useless. And for some reasons, spears a capable of a fightm though you can just attack from 2 directions, have to maintain disctance and doing lower damage, than a 1h sword? Compare it directly to 2h weapons. The only "advantage" is the extended range. And this range is not even extended, it's shifted, cause you lose this range on the other side in close combat. A 2h weapon is faster, can hit easier because of swings, does more damage, can fight close quarter, can use feints, has 4 attack directions AND has crushtrough. So why 2h needed a buff to be able to compete and spears do not?

Spears vs cav
In my opinion, spears don't need a buff against cav. They need a chance to fight back. I have absoluty no problems with killing cav, but i also use the spear as main weapon.

Side swings
In my opinion, this is really needed. Those swings don't need to do much damage, it's mostly for mixing things up, and gaining some space in close combat. For me, it would be even enough, if they wouldn't do damage, but pushing the enemy a bit back so you can gain some space

Hit boxes of shields
One big problem i see with spears are the extended hitboxes of shields. I don't know how often i stabbed someone from the side on a part, that was clearly not covered by a shield, and i was still blocked.

For what i'm seeing, spears are not used by people. At least not in TDM or siege, i had whole games there withouth seeing a 2h spear. Very few play with shield and spear, but compared to all other weapons...
 

Qwezz

Sergeant at Arms
I have found success using spears as a side-arm. Getting some distance to my opponent and poking them with a spear is a tactic that has worked many times for me. There is the weapon switch time to factor in, so the enemy has plenty of time to react but it's about the suprise factor more than anything. Afterwards the enemy has to close in or run away since you have the range advantage, it's a great tool for controlling the flow of the fight in a 1v1 if you know how to use it properly. Also I don't get some pepole here complaining about the damage,last time I played I remember easily getting 70~ damage with a single thrust to the head on mid-top tier units.

I agree with the pepole here saying that spears are in a good place. Spears should be used as a support weapon in big fights and as a side-arm in 1v1's. If there's anything I'd change it's how bracing works, but that's a diffrent topic.
 

Mushbeast

Knight at Arms
Y'all missing some serious points. I agree spears were bad before 1.5 but now they're good.
What u guys missing is that spears are very powerful against cav now, you can rear a horse with a little 10 damage poke to the leg and rear-lock him from nearly every angle(hopefully getting fixed).
Spears are already great for group fights, as while your teammate is fighting the enemy you can get around and poke him to death, or force him to block so he can get kicked. (And a piss amount of damage with each poke too)
Pikes ****ing obliterate cavalry now; so high damage, out ranges lances(as it should). Even when standing still(no movement bonus to damage) you get an easy 40-50, or higher damage on heavy infantry if you aim for chest(you should, duh).
I see some people on TDM server who plays spear without a shield, and a short spear that is, they fail to kill the cavalry because cav has a longer lance and then whine about how op cavalry is(same people prefer not switching to their 1h in a close 1v1, when playing archer refuses to switch to melee and continues with bot even though enemy is slashing them)
So what I'm saying is, get more experience with spears, get more experience about group fights and skirmish, don't hold your opinions based on TDM and siege(I'm pretty sure a lot of people does that). You can see how a dedicated spear player can turn things around in a skirmish match.
Spears are not bad, they're balanced.
Change my mind.

I've been using almost mainly spears since day one, and something about the mechanics has definitely become harder since 1.5 whether that's due to the movement speed changes or weapon switch changes as it used to be quite viable switching between the spear and a main weapon, but no so much anymore. Spears in a team fight only really works out if you outnumber the enemy and usually only 3-to-1, or you manage to get a complete flank on the enemy in which case a regular weapon would generally be more effective anyway.

Pikes are really good now -- I think a lot of that is because you can grab them as shock infantry on a lot of factions which are the fastest classes, and you can actually keep a bit of distance which is required. They might be my favourite weapons to use at the moment, but you need that speed unless you're just fending off against cavalry. I didn't mention your first point in the OP because as far as I know it's about to be nerfed or reworked in the upcoming patch.

I'm not arguing that spears are useless, they definitely have their place in the game and their use, but it really takes one look at the amount of people that actually use spears to see that they're at a less-than-ideal spot. I get where they're going with the balance, but I don't think they've struck that sweet spot of being a viable tool on it's own, and not being completely overpowered in a team fight.
 

MP_Erik

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNW
Can it be that the problem is not just the spear but stabbing in general is weak? Swinging your weapon gives you a cone of almost 180° where you deal effective damage; stabbing gives you just one line and that with extra restrictions to your minimum range. I've recently tried to stab someone with a sword and it seems just not worth it.
I also find it quite strange that the same weapon deals 40dmg if you stab it with 2 hands and 150dmg if you throw it with one hand. (Though I quite like that they buffed throwing weapons. In Warband they were always quite useless.)
 

Chaoslian

Veteran
Can it be that the problem is not just the spear but stabbing in general is weak? Swinging your weapon gives you a cone of almost 180° where you deal effective damage; stabbing gives you just one line and that with extra restrictions to your minimum range. I've recently tried to stab someone with a sword and it seems just not worth it.
I also find it quite strange that the same weapon deals 40dmg if you stab it with 2 hands and 150dmg if you throw it with one hand. (Though I quite like that they buffed throwing weapons. In Warband they were always quite useless.)

Yes, thats one reason, why glancing feels so inconsistent. Not only that you have this "restricted line" you mentioned, this also changes with the length of the spear you use.
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
@Chaoslian
Nobody in Skirmish uses 2h-Spears.


My suggestion would be to have 2 types of spears :

Spear : has 4 Directions like in Warband, maybe instead of overheadswing you keep the overheadstab. The swings deal blunt damage.

Lance/pike/Kontos : works like now

The differenciation between the two would be that short and medium without the ability to couch are classified as spears, while the long and heavy types are categorized as the latter.
 
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Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
@Chaoslian
Nobody in Skirmish uses 2h-Spears.


My suggestion would be to have 2 types of spears :

Spear : has 4 Directions like in Warband, maybut instead of overheadswing you keep the overheadstab. The swings deal blunt damage.

Lance/pike/Kontos : works like now

The differenciation between the two would be that short and medium without the ability to couch are classified as spears, while the long and heavy types are categorized as the latter.
the overhead attack is very strong, zoning wise, it slows down melee combat would be very careful when actually changing them or we find ourselfs in a unfun meta
 
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