Buff spears.

[Mushbeast]

I don't know if anything was directly changed to spears since the infamous 1.5 (or was it 1.4) patch that changed a lot of the combat parameters, but they've gone from weak beforehand to utterly useless. My suspicions is it's due to the changes made to movement speed but I haven't done much testing to back that up.

I'm hitting medium-infantry for 10 - 20 damage a lot of the time, and when you pull of a perfect hit which in a lot of cases can be impossible, you are lucky to hit for 35-45. If reflective team damage gets added in as well (which it should in my opinion) then spears will be too risky to use in a team fight for little to no reward.

The worst part in my eyes is when you rear a cavalry-- which can be hard with most spears as they're usually shorter, or just as long as the cavalry spears-- you can only punish them with about a 20-30 damage hit. I think a straight up damage bonus against horse-riders could be in order for spears.

At the end of the day, the mechanics behind the spear have to be the hardest in the game. You can easily glance and deal no damage, you have less options to feint and bypass a block, you're forced to actually aim your weapon and with that predict where the enemy will be at the end of your animation and finally when you do, you end up just tickling the enemy for a few measly hit points.

I don't think you need to make spears the primary, main weapon of all armies and from what I've heard **** was overpowered in the beta, but please have a look into making it a decent weapon as playing as a 'horse-stopper' doesn't even grant any points or anything like that.

Thanks and please consider.

 

[Shatti]

*First of all
they should let us choose between:
-long spears
&
-medium length spears

Meduim range should get swinging mechanic to compromise the length and to make it relative in melee infantry fights.
Right now,,
they’re just stopping horses

*second Thing:
They should stun the enemy when they hit
(2 hits in a row is nearly impossible)
But i believe its a problem with the combat not just spears.

*third thing:
They should decrease the range of when( spears do 1-5 damgae and get stuck).

*last thing:
The damage value should be changed according to how effective is the spear with these changes.
To avoid making it too strong.

 

[TheBard]

You want a medium spear?
Offer a light cav that you swap your long spear with their medium spear. If that rider has brains, he'll accept since he gets a longer spear for free and range = win on cav.
Problem. Solved.

 

[Mushbeast]

It straight up comes down to who has the longer spear in a cav vs infantry fight. It'd be decent if the short/medium spears were more useful in infantry combat, but that's hardly the case, so they're pretty much useless for all purposes. Sturgia seems to get the short end of the stick (quite literally) in terms of spears.

 

[Shatti]

Well any one played with warspear in warband ?
Thats what im talking about

right now every thing is working as a “lance”

maybe some players like somthing u dont use or like, u have to consider that.
Variety is good

 

[Zoonanay]

I've found the increased length that 1.5 introduced to be worse for infantry spears than before.

They're more likely to glance in an infantry fight due to the spacing needed (same with pikes)

The weapon switch delay also means quick-switching to your spear is no longer an option.

I often find myself turning to a face a cavalry, whose only 5 metres away, to be forced to block rather than stab because the animation takes too long.

Either quick-switch delay needs to be reduced for spears to they can actually be pulled last second, or they need to more relevant to infantry fights so you can actually keep it out in a fight.

I think spears were pretty balanced pre 1.5, they were fast and the pierce damage multiplier to heads applies to them as well. Some like Khuzait Throwing spear could even be effective in 1v1 due to it's shortness, speed and damage.

 

[PijeIBije]

To be honest i find all thrusting attacks unreliable due to what i think is slow turning speed during attack animation. I am missing much more thrusting attacks compared to warband. Overheads are affected by this as well but i think somewhat less.

 

[Chaoslian]

This was discussed in a varity of threads. Unfortunately, TW stated that they are happy with spears currently and don't plan to change them.
Spears were op in beta, and now a big part of this community seems to be scared, that there will be a spear meta, if TW decides to buff them.

 

[Vattghern]

*First of all
they should let us choose between:
-long spears
&
-medium length spears

Meduim range should get swinging mechanic to compromise the length and to make it relative in melee infantry fights.
Right now,,
they’re just stopping horses

*second Thing:
They should stun the enemy when they hit
(2 hits in a row is nearly impossible)
But i believe its a problem with the combat not just spears.

*third thing:
They should decrease the range of when( spears do 1-5 damgae and get stuck).

*last thing:
The damage value should be changed according to how effective is the spear with these changes.
To avoid making it too strong.

+ Nice things

 

[Kunshiro]

What if I find very annoying is when rearing cav after they get reared they can just speed out of it in 1 second

 

[LANDALORE]

What if I find very annoying is when rearing cav after they get reared they can just speed out of it in 1 second

With that, just stab the horses head and back up to give yourself more room for a followup stab to stop the horse. Any time they double tap W spear stabs can rear. Double stop is enough to kill any cav with help. Worst comes to worst you take out half the horses HP, making it paper for the next encounter.

 

[WMorton]

I don't know if anything was directly changed to spears since the infamous 1.5 (or was it 1.4) patch that changed a lot of the combat parameters, but they've gone from weak beforehand to utterly useless. My suspicions is it's due to the changes made to movement speed but I haven't done much testing to back that up.

I'm hitting medium-infantry for 10 - 20 damage a lot of the time, and when you pull of a perfect hit which in a lot of cases can be impossible, you are lucky to hit for 35-45. If reflective team damage gets added in as well (which it should in my opinion) then spears will be too risky to use in a team fight for little to no reward.

The worst part in my eyes is when you rear a cavalry-- which can be hard with most spears as they're usually shorter, or just as long as the cavalry spears-- you can only punish them with about a 20-30 damage hit. I think a straight up damage bonus against horse-riders could be in order for spears.

At the end of the day, the mechanics behind the spear have to be the hardest in the game. You can easily glance and deal no damage, you have less options to feint and bypass a block, you're forced to actually aim your weapon and with that predict where the enemy will be at the end of your animation and finally when you do, you end up just tickling the enemy for a few measly hit points.

I don't think you need to make spears the primary, main weapon of all armies and from what I've heard **** was overpowered in the beta, but please have a look into making it a decent weapon as playing as a 'horse-stopper' doesn't even grant any points or anything like that.

Thanks and please consider.

careful what you say, you might make gab n.1 the best in the game if they buff the spears

 

[Younes]

careful what you say, you might make gab n.1 the best in the game if they buff the spears

Assuming he would even play

 

[Mushbeast]

careful what you say, you might make gab n.1 the best in the game if they buff the spears

Sorry dawg, I got no idea who that is.

With that, just stab the horses head and back up to give yourself more room for a followup stab to stop the horse. Any time they double tap W spear stabs can rear. Double stop is enough to kill any cav with help. Worst comes to worst you take out half the horses HP, making it paper for the next encounter.

That seems to be the go-to technique for dealing with cav, but I've reared horses up to four (maybe even five) times in a row with them still managing to make it out alive. Of course it depends on the horse itself and the spear you have, but it sort of feels cheap having to stunlock cav in order to deal with them. That's why I thought maybe a damage bonus against the rider would make a nice high-risk-high-reward dynamic as it's obviously harder to hit the rider, and generally puts you within their spear range as opposed to keeping a safe distance and aiming at the horses head.

 

[Lord Bryggan]

Spears should be a lot more effective, especially when used in a group. The thrust should be a lot faster, and there it should push the enemy back a few feet to allow for a second stab. This would make it a very good defensive weapon, which it should be. This would really help at choke points in siege.

 

[LANDALORE]

That seems to be the go-to technique for dealing with cav, but I've reared horses up to four (maybe even five) times in a row with them still managing to make it out alive. Of course it depends on the horse itself and the spear you have, but it sort of feels cheap having to stunlock cav in order to deal with them. That's why I thought maybe a damage bonus against the rider would make a nice high-risk-high-reward dynamic as it's obviously harder to hit the rider, and generally puts you within their spear range as opposed to keeping a safe distance and aiming at the horses head.

Back in warband you could hit through the horse and damage the rider, id be all for bringing this mechanic back, I think it would help with what you are talking about, making it more worthwhile for swings and spears to be more of a threat to stopped or even hit cav players. It was also really nice for cav vs cav because instead of picking between horse or rider you would aim the lance at the horses head and swing it up into the rider, took more skill to pull of but it was very rewarding, as of now the cav player can make a guess if you are going for the horse or the player, if they go for the horse you pretty much are garenteed a free hit.

Adding in swing through to horses will also help against glaive and menav cab, making them less powerful.

 

[MP_Erik]

Back in warband you could hit through the horse and damage the rider, id be all for bringing this mechanic back, I think it would help with what you are talking about, making it more worthwhile for swings and spears to be more of a threat to stopped or even hit cav players. It was also really nice for cav vs cav because instead of picking between horse or rider you would aim the lance at the horses head and swing it up into the rider, took more skill to pull of but it was very rewarding, as of now the cav player can make a guess if you are going for the horse or the player, if they go for the horse you pretty much are garenteed a free hit.

Adding in swing through to horses will also help against glaive and menav cab, making them less powerful.

I kind of like the idea of having to pick between horse and rider. Sounds more like the thing that medieval knights would be doing.
Edit: Seems like the rider can swing through his horse all he likes. Removing that would too wuld be nice.

Still agree that spears are currently not as powerful as they should be and that twohanders on horse are far more powerfull than they should be.

 

[nerburg]

The above suggestions for reducing the recently increased weapon switch delay and the option for inf to pick between the long and short spear would go a long way to making them a good choice for infantry again, even if the enemy isn't using a ton of cav.

 

[hoonii]

Y'all missing some serious points. I agree spears were bad before 1.5 but now they're good.
What u guys missing is that spears are very powerful against cav now, you can rear a horse with a little 10 damage poke to the leg and rear-lock him from nearly every angle(hopefully getting fixed).
Spears are already great for group fights, as while your teammate is fighting the enemy you can get around and poke him to death, or force him to block so he can get kicked. (And a piss amount of damage with each poke too)
Pikes ****ing obliterate cavalry now; so high damage, out ranges lances(as it should). Even when standing still(no movement bonus to damage) you get an easy 40-50, or higher damage on heavy infantry if you aim for chest(you should, duh).
I see some people on TDM server who plays spear without a shield, and a short spear that is, they fail to kill the cavalry because cav has a longer lance and then whine about how op cavalry is(same people prefer not switching to their 1h in a close 1v1, when playing archer refuses to switch to melee and continues with bot even though enemy is slashing them)
So what I'm saying is, get more experience with spears, get more experience about group fights and skirmish, don't hold your opinions based on TDM and siege(I'm pretty sure a lot of people does that). You can see how a dedicated spear player can turn things around in a skirmish match.
Spears are not bad, they're balanced.
Change my mind.

 

[hoonii]

Also I agree 2 handers on horseback is unbalanced, especially the glaive, but in skirmish trading off your shield means imminent death by archers and throwables sooo.
Courser might need a little damage nerf but already its deals half of damage it used to do before the nerfs. As I said you don't have a shield with menav and glaive so they're situational. Glaive needs a damage nerf though, its too high right now and combined with speed bonus it has the ability to one-hit heavy armor people.