BT-7 tank on wheels

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A few places (example) I have read that the BT-7 tank could be converted from a tracked vehicle to a wheeled one for long movement on roads. This sounds pretty interesting, but I can't find much details about it. Does anyone know how successful it was? I guess not very, since I have never heard of it in other vehicles.
 
It was quite unsuccessful. The idea was good on paper but the execution, like in so many other pre-WW2 Soviet tanks, was lackluster. The idea was that the tank could avoid wear&tear on tracks by moving on roads using normal wheels and then the crew could attach the tracks for battle and cross-country operations. Tracks wearing out is the biggest maintenance issue with tanks, even today, which is why  they are often transported on flatbed lorries or by trains if possible. In reality, the wheels turned out to be too weak to handle the tracks properly when going cross-country and the attaching/removal of the tracks was a slow and cumbersome process. Mind you, this is off the top of my head from what I remember reading and hearing about them when I was still a tanker myself.

Edit: quickly checking Wikipedia, it claims that the tracks could be removed in 30 minutes, though it doesn't give a source, as usual, and doesn't say anything about how long it would take to put the track back on - probably several hours.
 
Thanks! Regarding the tracks, if the tank's weight is anything to go by, I imagine it wouldn't take all that long to put them back on (I have also spent some hours on track maintenance), but on the other hand they would probably want to bring the tracks along, which sounds like a bit of a bother, so uhm, yeah, sounds cumbersome.

Do you think it could be made to work in a modern light vehicle though? Imagine a Bv206 cruising on the road in 120 km/h. It would be so cool :sad:
 
Could be done?
For sure.

Would be done?
Never. Far too expensive. Cheaper to send a LKW or a train and have a very reliable track vehicle than a fragile mishmash.
 
Bv206 or NASU already get up to quite high speeds, 80 km/h if I'm not mistaken. Modern MBTs and IFVs go up to 60-80 km/h as well. The mashup was a good idea back in the day when tracks were even less reliable than nowadays and tank speeds in general weren't very impressive.

Also, the rubber tracks on light vehicles are a piece of cake compared to the iron/steel tracks on MBTs. Having once done a complete track switch on a T-55... NEVER AGAIN! And that was on a level asphalt yard with all the tools at hand, on a fair day. Nightmarish job to be done out on the field, in rain or blizzard, with only what ever tools your tank still has left in its tool box.
 
Hm, yes, but then there is the issue of wear on the tracks. If I remember right, Bv206 should not drive much above 50 km/h for long for that reason. But maybe it still wouldn't be worth it. Anyway, I would not dream of convertible heavy vehicles; our M109s also had steel tracks.

Noosers, which things do you think would be more expensive? Cumbersome/superfluous/fragile I can understand, but right now I don't see anything raising the cost by a lot.
 
Mainly durability, comfort, precision and speed.

Modern MBT and their fully stablizied main armament guarantee first hit shots at 50+ km/h in any terrain. Given the top speed of a WWII tank was less than 40km/h and most tanks lumbered to battle at something like 10km/h and had to use shotting stops the requirements for the whole drive unit has greatly changed.

And the reason why the best tanks look similar and use a simliar travelling gear means it´s the best one around.
Which thing is more expensive?

You know how tracks are propelled and steered. And you know how wheels are propelled and steered. All MBT torque rods to keep their wheels elastic and absorb impact. So you got like 7 wheels on each side, and a huge giant cogwheel on your backside to power the tracks.

Now, replace that system with an equally agile and reliable wheel system. You need a couple of axles, fixed and steerable and you need to redo your drive chain. You need a total new system as you can´t use anything out of your old one.

It needs to be equally durable, agile and good as your track kit. Means expensive. And totally useless. Noone installs 2 perfect systems on 1 machine for the same purpose. If it´s war, you ride to battle, no matter the distance. No matter wether you´ve got rubber coated tracks mounted or steel ones attached.

However, out of a logicistical aspect, transport by train or LKW is far cheaper in terms of diesel or gas and you don´t suffere tear and wear of a road march on your tanks.

The current steel tracks on modern MBT are quite durable - a couple of thousand km, closer to 10 than 1. So you don´t have to change them that often. The rubber blocks attached to it to save wear and tear on the track and the asphalt of streets though need to changed more often - but that´s only a few hours work of maintenance for a single crew team.

So in short - replacing/adding a very reliable, durable and awesome way to move 50+ tons in all terrain and conditions with a totally different system to move said 50+ tons on a street to save wear and tear on tracks is useless, too expensive, too fragile, too complicated and thus doomed and causing epic fail if you try it.

It´s not needed. Otherwise, if it was feasible and awesome, everyone had it. But - nooone does.

If you still can´t get my point - I lack the proper english fullily support my cause - go and a have a look at some modern tanks. Try to look for technical charts as well. Then look at your car and imagine what you´d have to do if you wanted it to run on simliar tracks like those tanks feature. Then reason about price.
 
At that time, sending something that is almost 14 tons of weight ( aka with crew it is around 14 tons + ammo and fuel reserves ) onto 5 wheels on each side would leave it in place, as the wheels would probably pop under that weight, that wasn't 1990-2010 tech where they now build 15t trucks and place them on 5-6 tires on each side :razz: :smile:
 
noosers 说:
Now, replace that system with an equally agile and reliable wheel system. You need a couple of axles, fixed and steerable and you need to redo your drive chain. You need a total new system as you can´t use anything out of your old one.

Ah, yes, didn't think about that. I agree now. Thanks.
 
Agovic 说:
At that time, sending something that is almost 14 tons of weight ( aka with crew it is around 14 tons + ammo and fuel reserves ) onto 5 wheels on each side would leave it in place, as the wheels would probably pop under that weight, that wasn't 1990-2010 tech where they now build 15t trucks and place them on 5-6 tires on each side :razz: :smile:

Not really, there are armoured cars from WW2 that would have had more load per tyre than a BT-7 would.
 
Agovic 说:
At that time, sending something that is almost 14 tons of weight ( aka with crew it is around 14 tons + ammo and fuel reserves ) onto 5 wheels on each side would leave it in place, as the wheels would probably pop under that weight, that wasn't 1990-2010 tech where they now build 15t trucks and place them on 5-6 tires on each side :razz: :smile:
The hell kinda vehicle has twelve wheels?

Never mind, I was able to find a single cargo truck that, with multiple extended trailers, had six on each side. More than 10 is rare on account of it's illegal tonnage in most areas off the free way.
 
Well, the Germans had quite some reconaissance cars at the end of WW2 which had about that weight and moved around 8wheeled. Pretty damn well designed, that stuff.
And pretty well ahead of their time as well.

One ususally uses the amount of axles to distuingish LKW´s.
Your average 40 tons lorry has between 5 and 6 axles, depending on it´s type. Total amount of tyres depends on wether your axles have twin tyres mounted or not - so stick with axles.

12-15 tons is about the unloaden weight of a 3 axle LKW without an attached crane ever since 30+ years back.
The technology was present, even back then. They weren´t needed though.
 
And I'd so like to see normal tires holding a tank in place when it fires a 70mm gun XD :grin:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1128_Mobile_Gun_System

MobileGS.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ERC_90_Sagaie

ERC-90_Sagaie_008_FR.JPG


First one has a 105mm gun, second one has a 90mm gun.
 
Well, at least they have something. Until T-72 came out, no Soviet tank had any sort of AC or cooling mechanisms for the crew. Even Arctic summer can be stifling hot under a steel shell.
 
Running tanks without tracks was a common feature of most pre-war tanks that used the American Christie Suspension system (Wiki)

The British Tetrarch Airborne Tank and some other British WW2 Christie Suspension tanks where designed to be mobile without their tracks, as well as early American and Russian tanks.
 
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