Broken Two-Handers and Crushthrough! [1.5]

[BigBoiBeast]

I've read this complaint alot in Skirmish Rounds over the past few days. "2h are broken af. They have alot of range, are far too fast and do onehit damage". And it is 100% true. What I just dont get, is WHY?! Sure, Two-Handers are a powerful weapon, but unlike Warband you can 1. Crush through with every 2h weapon and 2. You don't even have to charge it, by holding an up-attack.

That in turn means, that there is teams of six roaming around, all choosing 2h-Classes which can now onehit basically everyone. I've played alot of Skirm since 1.5 came out, and all people seem to do as of now, is choose a Menavlion, Voulge, Bardiche, Great Axe or Phalx and just hitting through everyones blocks. Besides, not only do 2h weapons have some hermes like speed, NO NO ... their bearers also have armor that can tank 4-5 1h hits, which basically makes 2h classes walking-talking TANKS.

So no matter how good you are at blocking [with or without a shield doesn't matter, because certain weapons crush through shields as well] you won't have a chance if your opponent knows what he's doing. Also, for people that think archers are a counter to 2h... THEY ARE NOT! Except ur like Legolas or idk Robin Hood, it will still take you 2-3 shots to kill a Voulgier or Berserker. And in that time, thanks to their speed, they will have already reached you, and made little tiny chunks of Bannerlord-Player out of you.

Lastly, I'd like to say, that the Crush-Through chance is far too high. I tested it in 10 different Skirmish rounds today:
- More than 60% of my hits crushed through, which is absolutely insane. On Warband, only Mauls and Morningstars could crush through [The latter only on mods] and even then, you had a slight chance of blocking them.

Thanks for reading!
Beast

 

[Younes]

? Crush ? only ? for ? heavy ? hammers ?

 

[Alyss]

? Crush ? only ? for ? heavy ? hammers ? if their speed and reach is nerfed, because it would still require no skill to master

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

? Crush ? only ? for ? heavy ? hammers ?

 

[mylittletantan]

So no matter how good you are at blocking [with or without a shield doesn't matter, because certain weapons crush through shields as well] you won't have a chance if your opponent knows what he's doing

Chamber block should prevent crush through, so not technically true. If you can reliably chamber crush through has no effect, so someone really good at chamber blocking has the same chance as before.

Lastly, I'd like to say, that the Crush-Through chance is far too high

- More than 60% of my hits crushed through

There is nothing random about crush through. Theoretically you could learn what weapons will crush through and when to know if a block would work or not, very hard and probably more likely something you'd do subconsciously after tons of experience but not impossible.

There is a formula yes. (just checked 1.4.3 and 1.5.0 dlls and nothings really changed)

In multiplayer the difference is num is 58 and couch lance doesn't crush through.

Only swings from the up direction can crush though if the attack has enough energy. There is nothing actually limiting it to 2 handers it's just that 1 handers never have enough energy to crush.

If you want to change the way crush through works in single player you can use my mod Custom Crush Through to change it in various ways.

 

[Younes]

Chamber block should prevent crush through, so not technically true. If you can reliably chamber crush through has no effect, so someone really good at chamber blocking has the same chance as before.



There is nothing random about crush through. Theoretically you could learn what weapons will crush through and when to know if a block would work or not, very hard and probably more likely something you'd do subconsciously after tons of experience but not impossible.

I'm pretty sure people know the crush is not random. It's just that you don't exactly have 100% control of when you crush during an intense fight

 

[Greedalicious]

Chamber block should prevent crush through, so not technically true. If you can reliably chamber crush through has no effect, so someone really good at chamber blocking has the same chance as before.



There is nothing random about crush through. Theoretically you could learn what weapons will crush through and when to know if a block would work or not, very hard and probably more likely something you'd do subconsciously after tons of experience but not impossible.

If you're suicidal enough to try chambering at all, that might work, but with how chambering works currently its near impossible to consistantly chamber.
It doesnt matter if crusht through is random or not, it happens far too frequently and fighting a two hander if you're not also a two hander is frustrating as hell, even without the crush through because of how they move when they fight. Chasing a two hander while he turns slightly to a side and swings, and hits me for half my health is just not fun to deal with, and now fighting them defensively wont help either, as they'll eventually crush through your blocks and win.

 

[Runcop]

If they make it that only hammers could crush through that would be great and fix the bs 20 damage couches

 

[KSHMR]

Yeah considering that 98% of mechanics in this game were nerfed, we are now left with broken 2h's that swing faster than regular 1h weapons.

If this persists you'll see competitive clan matches with 6 2h's vs 6 2h's, which can be quite fun but gets boring quickly I guess.

@EbdanianAdmiral There you've got it, another post about 2h's

 

[Littlepage]

Yeesh, Two handed heavy infantry have more armor, they're faster than archers or light infantry, they break shields and crush through attacks with ease, and they can apparently can kill any horse in two hits. Is this supposed to be fun or balanced?

 

[KSHMR]

@AVRC

 

[BigBoiBeast]

Chamber block should prevent crush through, so not technically true. If you can reliably chamber crush through has no effect, so someone really good at chamber blocking has the same chance as before.



There is nothing random about crush through. Theoretically you could learn what weapons will crush through and when to know if a block would work or not, very hard and probably more likely something you'd do subconsciously after tons of experience but not impossible.

And how many people are profficient in chambers? I know 3. Besides, how is crushthrough not random?! I hit, it crushes through, I do the EXACT SAME HIT again and it doesn't crush through. If that isn't random, what is? Also damage needs fixing, because apperantly a Imperial Spatha or whatever the thing is called, can do 62 dmg to a Legionaire by hitting his arm, while an axe does 13 dmg to a Battanian when u hit them in the head... TWICE

 

[BigBoiBeast]

If you're suicidal enough to try chambering at all, that might work, but with how chambering works currently its near impossible to consistantly chamber.
It doesnt matter if crusht through is random or not, it happens far too frequently and fighting a two hander if you're not also a two hander is frustrating as hell, even without the crush through because of how they move when they fight. Chasing a two hander while he turns slightly to a side and swings, and hits me for half my health is just not fun to deal with, and now fighting them defensively wont help either, as they'll eventually crush through your blocks and win.

I couldn't agree more. The basic principle of 2h: "OHH U THERE, YOU'RE BEHIND ME ... WELL IDC, I'LL JUST DO A LEFT SWING AND STILL HIT YOU, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE BEHIND ME .. LET ME DO THAT AGAIN .. OHHHH 56 DMG WITH MY AXE, EVEN THO YOU'RE BEHIND ME" -Every current 2h Player.

 

[salad_fork]

This new patch is a step in the right direction but the balance is still horrible. I love playing 2h and was glad to see them finally viable but it is incredibly unbalanced, broken and not fun. It's obvious to anyone who plays for an hour or so that crushthrough is broken and should have never been added in, yet 5 months of beta test it seemed to go unnoticed?

Also why did they remove the only relatively balanced and non OP 2h weapon the Two handed sword but allow the Voulge to stay? These balance decisions are just very strange, if something is game breaking it shouldn't stay for months on end, but a weapon that isn't even OP get's removed.

 

[method man]

? Crush ? only ? for ? heavy ? hammers ?

 

[Thrax1]

? Crush ? only ? for ? heavy ? hammers ?

Agreed, they have to be very slow and very short

 

[Percival!!]

? Crush ? only ? for ? horse ? archer ?

 

[BayBear]

? Crush ? only ? for ? mighty? AVRC?

 

[AVRC]

All Mace swing speeds got readjusted.
Currently readjusting the speed of 2 Handed weapons.
Speed changes should reduce Crush Thorough, if it is not enough we will make further adjustments.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

All Mace swing speeds got readjusted.
Currently readjusting the speed of 2 Handed weapons.
Speed changes should reduce Crush Thorough, if it is not enough we will make further adjustments.

Great to hear