British Elections

[Jhessail]

Medicare here is bankrupt because we keep lowering the age to retire and the population of old people keeps getting bigger. Of course, the instance of some entitlements are essential, but for the most part they are useless to a well run society.

Please present some sources for that. Academic or even newspapers, not some right-wing talk radio conspiracy bull****.

 

[Archonsod]

How is this a sad truth? An honest day's work benefits more than a week's worth of lounging, this is good. I see nothing to be sad at. Cheer up.

It doesn't. One day (8 hours) of work on minimum wage would give you just over thirty quid. You need a minimum of 16 hours work to earn more than unemployment benefit. Problem being, you lose unemployment benefit if you reject any offer of more than 8 hours work.

For great lulz, you should also note the minimum wage is the amount the government calculates as the minimum required weekly income to maintain a decent quality of life. The amount paid out on unemployment benefits is also, according to the government, the amount they calculate is necessary to maintain a decent quality of life. Given there's around two hundred quid difference between the two, I think they should hire more mathematicians ...

 

[Austupaio]

That is one thing I've learned from a friend of mine who lives in Essex, while we Americans give too much to our unemployed, the UK really doesn't seem to give enough.

 

[Archonsod]

You get just enough to live on. It should be noted on top of the actual jobseekers you can also claim housing allowance (which pays your council tax and rent) and depending on your situation you can also get additional benefits (child allowance, disability allowance etc).

Our main problem is the untermensch playing the system. If you're a woman you don't need to get a job, sign on, find some fellow untermensch to knock you up (don't let him move in though, that will affect your benefits), have six kids and you could be getting upwards of £20 000 per year for doing **** all.

 

[omzdog]

Please present some sources for that. Academic or even newspapers, not some right-wing talk radio conspiracy bull****.

Sources that what, Medicare is bankrupt? Thats a well known problem here. The part about entitlements being useless to a well run society is my own opinion.

Pressuring people on unemployment benefits will force them to stop being a burden by them getting a job. You can be soft on people who simply take your money with nothing in return. You wane this financial support for his own benefit.

 

[Jhessail]

You claimed the following:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Medicare is bankrupt
[*]Retirement age has been, repeatedly, lowered
[*]Median age of population is rising
[*]Entitlements, for the most part, are useless in a well-run society
[/list]

I'd love to see anything backing those up since, as it is, its sounds suspiciously like something a Russ Limbaugh would gleefully lie about on his program.

 

[omzdog]

Alright let me clarify for you Jhessail.

Medicare is going bankrupt, the citizen's input into the system is less than the system's output.
I didn't say median age of the population was going up (even though it is), I said the number of old people was growing, which it is due to baby booms.
Entitlements are useless in a well-run society (as in an economically prosperous nation) because it eliminates individual economic responsibility and duty a principle that free trade relies on.

I have no clue what I meant by a decreasing retirement age. I must have been drunk that day.

 

[Archonsod]

I didn't say median age of the population was going up (even though it is), I said the number of old people was growing, which it is due to baby booms.

Not a problem, providing the number of young people who can look after them grows at the same rate.

Entitlements are useless in a well-run society (as in an economically prosperous nation) because it eliminates individual economic responsibility and duty a principle that free trade relies on.

Free trade is the antithesis of a well-run society. In fact, no society can be said to be well run as long as individualism is a part of it.

 

[omzdog]

Not a problem, providing the number of young people who can look after them grows at the same rate.

Thats the problem, economic recessions have diminished the power of the foundational youth group.

Free trade is the antithesis of a well-run society. In fact, no society can be said to be well run as long as individualism is a part of it.

I wouldn't say antithesis but its a much better vassal of an economy than socialistic policies.

 

[Archonsod]

By definition, socialism would be better for the society. Generally, when everything is owned by everyone, they have a greater motivation to work together.

 

[TelcontarITA]

I wouldn't say antithesis but its a much better vassal of an economy than socialistic policies.

Yeah, i've heard that Sweden is a waste land, thanks to socialistic policies. Oh, wait...

 

[Jhessail]

Medicare is a Federal program. It doesn't go bankrupt just because people put less money into it than what they draw out of it, as long as the Federal government handles the difference.

Number of old people doesn't really matter; the danger that is facing much of Europe and Japan is that the median age is going up leaving insufficient numbers of younger generations to cover their pensions. Typically, states are planning to pay pensions from future taxes. If younger people are impoverished by the recession, its still only a minor issue for they will grow more prosperous as the economy grows stronger. No recession lasts forever. Furthermore, I was under the impression that thanks to immigration, the median age of US is not growing old!

Entitlements are good for the cohesion of society. Even in the socialistic paradises, the Scandinavian countries, they are not large enough to make a significant amount of population live off nothing but benefits. You need to be a very small-minded person to be satisfied on that level. But they are enough to ensure that nobody starves or has to live in a cardboard box on some back alley or that no-one dies because they cannot afford proper healthcare in a timely manner. They don't really take away your free entrepreneurship or responsibility - they provide a safety net for the rainy day.

 

[omzdog]

The median age of the US is indeed increasing due to baby booms during the mid 20th century. In 1990 the median age was something like 32.5 while in 2000 it jumped to 35, quite the jump. The immigrants are a minority, hence a growth in median age.

Medicare is a Federal program. It doesn't go bankrupt just because people put less money into it than what they draw out of it, as long as the Federal government handles the difference.

My point exactly, the fed has to pick up the tab with more public money that could go to other sectors of the econ or stay in the hands of the public.

The problem you and I have is the identification of whether or not it is a 'service' to hand out money to people. You consider it a safety net I consider it a drug. The money that is.

Once a person gets free money, they'll be hooked for the next fix that they don't even have to work for. This is what I consider entitlement.