Bows/Crossbows Overpowerd ore underpowerd

[Selvhan]

"During the BEF’s fighting retreat, Churchill remained aggressive, unwilling to give up a yard of ground while extracting the maximum cost from the enemy. He was especially fond of raids and counterattacks, leading small groups of picked soldiers against the advancing Germans. He presented a strange, almost medieval figure at the head of his men, carrying not only his war bow and arrows, but his sword as well.

As befitted his love of things Scottish, Churchill carried the basket-hilted claymore (technically a claybeg, the true claymore being an enormous two-handed sword). Later on, asked by a general who awarded him a decoration why he carried a sword in action, Churchill is said to have answered: “In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed.”

hahaha

That also mean that when you are unarmored, an arrow should easily kill you. Especially from a good shooter.

 

[Tarrantmw]

I think after one arrow hits a person, the next arrow should do 30% more damage.

 

[Blind-Masseur]

The English Longbow, for example, was an exception, but you had to possess certain things to even fire the English Longbow, namely a three finger draw.  That's wehre the middle finger comes from.  The French had no counter for the long bow in the 100 year war, so they started cutting off captives middle fingers so they couldn't serve as archers again.  To taunt them the archers started flipping them the bird

Sorry to burst your bubble but that is actually a myth. Its a wonderful sounding origin point for the middle finger but there is absolutely no contemporary evidence to prove it. Sorry!

To get on topic however, I think the small suggestion Tarrantmw has just made is a worthy one and would most likely be easy to implement. It would certainly solve the occasionally ludcicrous looking pin-cushion scenario! I do think arrows are slightly underpowered in terms of unarmoured opponents but for armoured opponents, the damage seems just about right.

 

[Dionesios]

Really?  What's the real story?  And as science teaches us, a lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary.

 

[Likantropos]

IMHO the bows are underpowered in Native. I liked Luthius's idea about different arrows. But I think not only accuracy and damage matters, but distance too. It would be nice to have long-range pointy sticks and broadheaded arrows for close combat. Why can't an archer kill a swordsman shooting him point-blank? Guess an arrow would rip his guts, inflicting instant death because of a shock...

 

[Tarrantmw]

IMHO the bows are underpowered in Native. I liked Luthius's idea about different arrows. But I think not only accuracy and damage matters, but distance too. It would be nice to have long-range pointy sticks and broadheaded arrows for close combat. Why can't an archer kill a swordsman shooting him point-blank? Guess an arrow would rip his guts, inflicting instant death because of a shock...

Because an arrow has to gain momentum.

 

[Merentha]

And it wouldn't cause anything approaching instant death.  Puncture wounds produce almost no shock.

 

[triato]

I think that comparing to reality, all weapons are underpowered. We now see soldiers with 4 arrows piercing them, but we also stab unarmored soldiers with spears and they don´t die in the first strike. I belive archery is ok now, maybe a bit more powerfull would be ok but not to much.

 

[sssfreak]

Maybe have someone who has been hit significantly enough with an arrow/bolt have their movement speed reduced to walking speed for 10 seconds, to simulate the wind being taken out of them. It would help archers being rushed by infantry. Also if a horseman get hit in the head with a arrow/bolt and survives he/she gets knocked off their horse.

 

[RF Nigth]

I been thinking About Bodkins arrows as some say they where designed to perforate mail.
I have not seen the later ones that says to be more blunt fore perforate plate..
A bodkin seams to be smaller at the point then the base. A Arrow will not perforate much more then the hole it did right...
Is it because the Bodkin point will perforate Chainmail and the thicker base will Crack the chainmail?? ore WY is that?

I think after one arrow hits a person, the next arrow should do 30% more damage.
I love that proposal
And that when some one get a hit from a missile weapon get stunned  a fue sec..

maby a was a bit hard on the power off bows as you change the sound off the string release it feels it got more power in it

 

[Ronan]

Increase arrow damage and then increase armor protection against arrows so that enemies wearing light or no armor die more easily

 

[Æsir]

Arrow damage should be increased and more realistic. I agree with several others on the fact of 4 arrows in a trooper and him still being alive.

 

[Dionesios]

Because an arrow has to gain momentum.

I'm no physicist, so probably you know more about this than I do, but I think arrows have the most momentum upon release.  P(momentum) = mv  Since m is mass, it is constant.  The mass of the arrow doesn't change along the path of flight.  But we know due to Neuton's first law or something that without an applied force velocity remains constant, I think, lol.  An object in motion tends to stay in motion, that's the first one, right?  But air resistance is an applied force.  Though it might be mitigateable over short distances, I think with medieval bows it might become a factor at some point, though I couldn't tell you when.  Ignoring air resistance, however, I think we can all agree that the arrow doesn't actually speed up from the time it leaves the bow.  If it doesn't speed up, v can't increase, meaning it doesn't technically gain momentum once it leaves the bow.  It is gaining momentum the entire time it is in contact with the bow string, however.  As long as it has left the bow, however, I think it has as much momentum as it's going to get, but you'll have to look at it yourself, since like I said, I'm not great at physics. 

Edited to fix an equation I had wrong.  I put momentum as P = 1/2 mv2, but that is the equation for kinetic energy and is used in momentum when determining if momentum is conserved.  My bad.  Told you I was bad at physics.  Also took out some superfluous detail.

 

[thaimodz]

And here is somebody who got B+ in Physics, Dionesios,
Yes, you are correct. Fired weapons (except some variants of rockets) have highest velocity when just out of muzzle, or in this case, an arrow that had been shot from the bow for a split second, has highest velocity, and momentum as well. This means if someone is standing unarmored real close to the shooter and the shooter fires, you can imagine what happens next.

And another recommendation I have is that to give arrows a bleeding capacity and locational as well. While weak shots to legs may damage walking, shooting right into the head would render that guy out of the combat. However, if you do not care about your bleeding, then shock (for losing blood) may come after you.

 

[Selvhan]

By the way, the biggest artery is going by the legs... so you can easily die if the arrow cut this one.

Anyway, on adrenaline, its hard to kill someone. But when you got 2-3 arrows and you still far from the enemy.. you should be incapacitated.

Bows/Crossbows are underpowered in my opinion. Wearing a chainmail, i would prefer to receive a sword slash than an arrow. Right now, you can kill someone , or almost, with a slash from sword vs an enemy in chainmail. But the same guy can take 2-3-4-5 arrows.. that's ridiculous.

 

[Spanish_Broomaker]

Damage increased, but accuracy reduced - especially mounted accuracy.

Past .894, use power draw to get more damage points, use horse archery points to be super accurate (I have mine at 4).  So I think M&B is fine the way it is.

I will point out that penetration does not directly equate to damage.  An arrow through the shoulder will hurt, but its not taking anyone down.  Hell, I've been shot in the shoulder and was fine-ish.  I was twelve at the time, so it did have me crying, but comparing my pain tolerance then and now, I think I can safely say that if my life depended on it, a shoulder-shot would not take me out of a fight. 

I'll also say that 6 meters is incredibly close-range, and that a car door is not in any way analogous to armor.  Car doors are amazingly weak things, being made of little more than sheet metal and plastic backing. 

You lived in Compton? 

 

[Dain Ironfoot]

Arrow damage should be increased and more realistic. I agree with several others on the fact of 4 arrows in a trooper and him still being alive.

While I can accept that prehaps he could survive it (although personally I find this hugely unlikely if he's totally unarmoured) it should at least put him out for the fight going owowoowowow a lot. But that comes down to M&B hitpoint damage system which is discussed elsewhere..

 

[TheSlightFeelingOfRegret]

Really?  What's the real story?  And as science teaches us, a lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary.

No one knows for sure where it originates from, but from what I've heard:

It's probably a hand signal indicating "cuckold's horns" (A cuckold being a man whose wife was cheating on him, for some reason pagans  thought this would cause you to grow horns.) So, in the words of Stephen Fry- "It means I'm screwing your wife."

I heard this explanation on the TV programme QI, their researchers are pretty good and have a reputation for preciseness.


  As for archery as it is in the current game, I think the bows are a little weak, but I think they represent a good compromise between gameplay and realism. I think it's a totally reasonable way to play the game and an effective way to achieve kills with a good bow and a skill level of around 150.

 

[Tarrantmw]

The arrow will speed up on the way down due to gravity.

 

[Likantropos]

And slow down on the way up... due to gravity