Bow vs Crossbow Balance (Poll)

What changes would you make to balance crosbows?

  • Increase readying time

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Increase loading time

    Votes: 7 22.6%
  • Decrease hold duration

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Decrease precision

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Decrease damage

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Increase bullet drop

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • None at all, everything is fine.

    Votes: 18 58.1%

  • Total voters
    31

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MP_Erik

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNW
I've been comparing the strengths and weaknesses of Bows and Crossbows and come to the following result:

Crossbow:
-Faster readying time,
-Longer holding time,
-Less bullet drop,
-More damage,
-Equal fire rate.

Bow:
-Legolas has one.

I know these imbalances have been pointed out from time to time but as nothing has changed so far I think it's time to bring this up again. This also isn't mitigated by the fact that only one faction really has access to Crossbows. To fix this I would suggest one of the following solutions:

1. Nerf Crossbows.
-Make the readying time slightly longer. Should take at least as long as a melee attack, at the moment it's just ridiculous.
-Increase bullet drop. This would make sense for short bolts that are less stable in the air
-Maybe decrease precision. Same with short bolts and it would fit into their historical role as low training weapons for the buttery fingers of vlandian peasants.
It would also give bows crossbows a designated niche as longer/shorter range weapons.

2. Give every faction Crossbows
Also reskin them to look just as cool as bows.

Also I think nerfing Crossbows youd strengthen the vlandian feel of being mostly about knights instead of just being good at everything.
 

Horatius

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
What since when do xbows need a damn nerf?

Bows have a massive advantage that you can walk and reload/shoot at the same time. Also the damage difference isn't that massive anymore nowadays.

Crossbows are annoying to use and need more of a buff than a nerf.

Do you ever play somewhat sweaty skirmish as a crossbow?
 
Please do not nerf crossbows, otherwise ranged classes will soon be at the level of shield inf... and you can't expect that from anyone

No, seriously now. In competitive matches, most of the time one or even no archer is played. If the xbows are nerfed even more you can forget the class completely (in competetive).
 
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Are you mad because you dont know how to hold your shield up and get shot in the face when you get up close to a crossbow and press attack? Crossbows are fine as they are right now

Tip: Use Right Mouse Button (the right hand side button of your mouse, not the mouse wheel or the left hand side button) to hold your shield up
 
I've been comparing the strengths and weaknesses of Bows and Crossbows and come to the following result:

Crossbow:
-Faster readying time,
-Longer holding time,
-Less bullet drop,
-More damage,
-Equal fire rate.

Bow:
-Legolas has one.

I know these imbalances have been pointed out from time to time but as nothing has changed so far I think it's time to bring this up again. This also isn't mitigated by the fact that only one faction really has access to Crossbows. To fix this I would suggest one of the following solutions:

1. Nerf Crossbows.
-Make the readying time slightly longer. Should take at least as long as a melee attack, at the moment it's just ridiculous.
-Increase bullet drop. This would make sense for short bolts that are less stable in the air
-Maybe decrease precision. Same with short bolts and it would fit into their historical role as low training weapons for the buttery fingers of vlandian peasants.
It would also give bows crossbows a designated niche as longer/shorter range weapons.

2. Give every faction Crossbows
Also reskin them to look just as cool as bows.

Also I think nerfing Crossbows youd strengthen the vlandian feel of being mostly about knights instead of just being good at everything.
Bows have a higher damage output over time, by a massive margin. Only real overall advantage is the crossbow’s flatter trajectory in medium range engagements. With the way things are now, especially in multiplayer, there’s little to no reason not to choose a standard bow over a crossbow.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
To give some further perspective: nobody uses crossbow instead of stronger bow on empire heavy archer.

Nerfs to kickshots, can't crouch while reloading. Loads of smaller nerfs, not to mention the actual stats.

(Was more interesting trade on light archer. Now? Not really)
 
crossbows used to be known as knight killers bc of the armor penetration,

but in bannerlord a bow can penetrate any armor so there isnt a reason to use a crossbow,

i think that bows should do less damage against heavy armor
 

Aliaksandr

Veteran
crossbows used to be known as knight killers bc of the armor penetration,

but in bannerlord a bow can penetrate any armor so there isnt a reason to use a crossbow,

i think that bows should do less damage against heavy armor
it would be a very authentic fixing in my opinion
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Also would screw over archers. So there is that (unless you did it for all damage, which I would be more okay with)
 
crossbows used to be known as knight killers bc of the armor penetration,

but in bannerlord a bow can penetrate any armor so there isnt a reason to use a crossbow,

i think that bows should do less damage against heavy armor
I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but consider the following:
In multiplayer, the two factions with crossbows available are also the two factions with the heaviest armor (Empire and Vlandia). Statistically speaking, since a matchup between these two is comparatively uncommon, as well as mirror matches, this change wouldn't really make sense, as the only ones with good armor pen would be the ones wearing said armor, leaving other factions at a huge disadvantage and giving no greater advantage to said crossbow users.

Instead, I believe it would make more sense to tie armor penetration to draw/reload speed of the weapon, which is partially meant to be a representation of draw weight, as well as loss of kinetic force over range. A simple scheme using three categories like this as an example:

-Class A: Short bows with high RPM
Negligible high armor pen, especially at range. These are bows meant for ambushes and flanking, as well as emphasis on volume of fire, comparative to the balancing of Submachineguns in other titles.
(Khuzait and Aserai).

-Class B: Long bows with medium RPM, as well as light crossbows.
Decent armor pen that tapers off at range and better emphasizes use of the "Fast Release" perk, balanced in comparison to low rate of fire automatic rifles.
(Sturgian Hunting long bow, Battanian standard bow, light crossbows)

-Class C: Standard crossbows, Arbalests, and the heavy Fian long bow with full armor penetration up until the final arc of the bolt's trajectory where penetration could drop by 25-50% based on ammo choice and armor type encountered, most comparable to marksman rifles and bolt actions.


Further consideration could be given for ammo choice: Barbed tips for mount killing, for example, could have a faster loss of penetrative value over long range to make up for a slightly higher anti-mount damage to make up for the fact that cavalry are meant to counter archers, and the archers are usually shooting as they're being charged already by the aforementioned cavalry. This makes sense from both the realistic standpoint of drag, as well as the balance standpoint of making a deliberate choice to mitigate a hard counter.




TL;DR: Bow/Xbow damage and penetration values should be organized based on draw weight, not weapon class, to prevent the monopolization of armor pen to the factions already wearing the heaviest armor.
 
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flashn00b

Veteran
Only balancing issue i have is the Arbalest (Strongest crossbow in the game), really. Otherwise, I think the bow vs crossbow debate is in a good position.

If i'm to go further into detail about the Arbalest specifically, my problem is that the amount of damage it deals is pretty absurd when you consider the Sharpshooter's base armor rating being such that it forgives a fair amount of mistakes in melee combat, and being allowed to deal an extra 75% damage to cavalry puts the Sharpshooter in a position where he's pretty much untouchable. I think the only way to fix this would be to replace the Arbalest with the medium crossbow, give the Sharpshooter slightly stronger bolts than the Arbelist and Palatine Guard, and replace his default medium crossbow with a Long Bow, so as to reduce the Sharpshooter's base damage output to such that it's on par with other heavy archers.
 
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