Bow variety/balance

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anoddhermit

Sergeant
With melee weapons we have tons of variety and sidegrades.

With bows we have a short series of effectively straight upgrades aside from very low tier bows, for bows usable on horseback.

Every new character, the same progression - I'm going to go from starting bow -> nordic -> heavy recurve -> steppe war bow -> noble.

The noble bow also makes foot bows and the perk allowing us to use them on horseback arguably obsolete for main character use, due to its higher accuracy/projectile speed and allowing you to take the deep quivers perk.

I think it would be nice if a few of the lower tier bow models were used for stronger variants somewhere in the ranges of ~60-80 damage to fill some gaps in as well as offer some alternative aesthetics to the higher tier bows. I've always like the Nordic but it's obsolete in very short order.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Frankly, it would be an interesting idea; why not. A simple and plausible way to tackle this kind of diversity is the simple application of materials to a specific mesh.

Here is an image from Dawa's mod where with the same mesh model you get different item models with a "simple" application of colour (material). This applied in this way for Native would be interesting in my eyes.

2927-1620163464-661546318.png


What else could Taleworlds add? I'll omit the animations because so many years of advocating for changes if they didn't fix then there is little to do.

Fix the string on this bow which is a beginner's mistake that has flown under the radar for many:

Native wrong modelModel from Better Bows mod
lBDqq0J.png
2889-1619047322-1898675557.jpeg


Reintroduce the different cases for the bows. These models still exist in-game (shortbow_a_holster; there are models for b-c-d and f)... I don't understand why they are unused... I have personally tested them in-game and I see no problem other than adjusting the holster xyz and pitch when in motion.


Mount-Blade-2-Bannerlord-13.jpg














Bottom right corner


Edit: Of course, it is necessary to properly calibrate the damage/protection calculation and how the projectiles of this type of weapon relate by interacting with each other.
 
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Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
Every new character, the same progression - I'm going to go from starting bow -> nordic -> heavy recurve -> steppe war bow -> noble.
I just stay on the nordic until noble, I don't think the other are good enough in-between to buy.
The noble bow also makes foot bows and the perk allowing us to use them on horseback arguably obsolete for main character use, due to its higher accuracy/projectile speed and allowing you to take the deep quivers perk.
Agreed. the accuracy makes the noble long bow inferior. However the horse master +30 bow skill to mounted archers under your captain is good.

I agree that they should ad more bows. They do weird stuff like down grade the Khan's Guard bow but leave the bow in the t4 and t5 the better bow and it's just not right. I understand wanting balance (though this is a nonsense tinker roo) but it looks bad to have the higher tier have the worse bow. Just make more bows in a progression, I don't see why it would be much of a thing to do.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
[...] Just make more bows in a progression, I don't see why it would be much of a thing to do.
Actually carrying out this variety of boes and having it applied through their corresponding items would take no more time than a day at the office (quite generous with time :wink:).

What I said:
  • You take a bow model, edit the texture by applying for example different colours of wood (or paint as Dawa did -see previous comment) and create materials for it (same procedure as with my horses).
  • Example of random wood
  • Then with the materials you add the code lines of each item + their stats using different materials.
  • Do the same with the other bow meshes...


And voilà, you would have >20 "new" bows with diverse stats. The question is... would Taleworlds want to do this? :iamamoron:?
 
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JunKeteer

Regular
More options would be nice for sure, they have loads of 1-/2-handed weapons vs the 5 (?) options with bows (and x-bows). And it's not like the stats really matter given the current damage/armor calculations even though 1-/2-handers have a whole bunch of mixes (not including smith'ed ones either).
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
A quick example of a quick colour application on a bow sample mesh:

Pp76g.jpg

Quick photoshop concept

Take three variants of the existing models and you have an interesting visual variety as well as a variety of item qualities. Easily attributable to modding environment, but would be an interesting addition to Native for its fast implementation.
 
It'd be nice to see some differentiation between horse and foot bows. Maybe the former could be faster and the latter could hit harder, or one could have more penetration or something.
 

Madeloc

Recruit
That would be just cool that - sorry for the reference - like in Diablo III, there is a "transmogrification" system, i.e., you choose a weapon and then you can change its look, so that you have the choice of your weapon's stats, and the look you want to have. The noble bow, when not in use, its display on how we carry it, is just awfull, but the short nordic bow is useless, so we generaly choose the ugly look :smile:
Same remark for armors, although I agree a textile armor with heavy metal armor stats would be un-lore...
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
Actually carrying out this variety of boes and having it applied through their corresponding items would take no more time than a day at the office (quite generous with time :wink:).

What I said:
  • You take a bow model, edit the texture by applying for example different colours of wood (or paint as Dawa did -see previous comment) and create materials for it (same procedure as with my horses).
  • Example of random wood
  • Then with the materials you add the code lines of each item + their stats using different materials.
  • Do the same with the other bow meshes...


And voilà, you would have >20 "new" bows with diverse stats. The question is... would Taleworlds want to do this? :iamamoron:?

It really is just impossible to do.
"But I've just shown you how to do it."
Impossible. Literally cant be done.
"Yes, it can and it will only take you a day."
It would take us forever! Forget it! Cant be done.
"Bruh."
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Good old times when there was "color" in Calradia...
Oh the old times ?... What I see that is still sticking around is those bizarrely random hairstyles; they're supposed to be imperial soldiers... and well, the sturgian braids seem to be a Calradian fashion that goes from north to south :lol:.

It really is just impossible to do.
"But I've just shown you how to do it."
Impossible. Literally cant be done.
"Yes, it can and it will only take you a day."
It would take us forever! Forget it! Cant be done.
"Bruh."
And I've used photoshop for "the demo" due to I have this problem with the tools now because otherwise in 1 hour I would have implemented ingame those three new "coloured" bow models... you know me :lol:.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
as a real life horse bow archer, this has been an eyesore for me since day one. Thanks for the post?
I feel you mate; don't jump in here if you want to cry and even less so if you check the date.

In particular this bow (shortbow_f / Noble Bow) instead of being fixed (which wouldn't take more than a couple of hours) has been swept under the carpet by Taleworlds... none of the units in the different troop trees have it equipped neither bandits, Lords...etc.
 

Brano

Regular
Good tip with those bow holsters, Terco. I will experiment myself. Didnt know they even exist in the game ?
Oh, almost forgot. Thumb release animation with arrow on right side of the bow would be really nice to have.
 
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